Why do intellectuals oppose capitalism?

[byu71]

How could you possibly look down at this pretty plumage?

What is that nice lady doing with those two hippies.

[wuapinmon]

What is that nice lady doing with those two hippies.

Ha, that's my sister. She's the hippiest person I know. Lives in Big Sur, CA in some cabin.

[statman]

The debate isn't Capitalism -- Yes or No. The debate is about how unfettered we allow it to operate. How much we tame the beast.

My problem with this is that generally, there is no debate. We have a bureaucratic class, generally from the 'best schools,' that 'knows better.' There's no need for debate any longer - they can manage the bad parts out of the capitalist model. We have given over a helluva lot of regulatory power to this class - often unfettered by the actual legislative process (think EPA, FCC, etc).

The problem is, their regulatory interference has costs. It impedes the market's clearing mechanisms. If there was debate, if it was acknowledged that there are costs - that we're not smarter than the market and if we debated what trade-offs were actually wise to make - I'd be a lot happier with how our system runs.

The health care debacle is a classic example. We were promised a boat load of benefits, and LOWER costs. Anyone who believed the crock of shit that health-care costs would would go down under Obamacare is a menace to capitalism and democracy and needs to have his voting rights taken away permanently.

A DEBATE on the topic needed to have been honest - which it clearly wasn't. A debate would have started with - "okay, costs are going to go up by x% and this is going to be paid for by this group of people through this tax mechanism. Do we really want to do this?" We heard only that costs for everyone were going to go down and, therefore, anyone who opposed it was simply stupid - and homophobic, misogynistic and racist, since that's how such 'debates' always evolve.

Parenthetically, this WAS the exact debate that happened in Europe in the 60's. They went into universal health care with their eyes wide open, knowing it was less efficient than allowing the market to work its magic. But they felt that a 'just' society would take care of its own, so it was worth the costs of any inefficiencies they needed to pay. Unfortunately, going forward, they can't afford a 'just' society. So now what do they do? They have no idea...

What we had happen in our country was that a bureaucratic class wrote the bill, a political class and a press that are both completely beholden to the bureaucracy that lied through their teeth about the actual impacts expected from the law until it was passed, who only now allow the negatives to leak out. We had no actual debate on the issue (NONE) because the truth about it was never admitted by those who championed it - and they didn't win a single vote from the other side. So much for debate...

[il Padrino Ute]

Yes, yes, and yes. You know that I've written previously on here about my issues with Great Society programs for the able-bodied, so I'm not sure why you're setting me up with these rhetoricals, but if you want to get into a semantical argument about "greediest," we can.

So then, are you willing to increase the taxes of those who are not willing to be productive, just as you want to increase the taxes of those who are productive?

I'm not necessarily wanting to get into an argument of semantics. I just want to make sure I understand who you believe should pay higher taxes. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it sounds like you think everyone should pay more.

[il Padrino Ute]

Some people see this not as a problem but as a benefit...

Agreed. Unions suck.

[wuapinmon]

So then, are you willing to increase the taxes of those who are not willing to be productive, just as you want to increase the taxes of those who are productive?

I'm not necessarily wanting to get into an argument of semantics. I just want to make sure I understand who you believe should pay higher taxes. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it sounds like you think everyone should pay more.

You can't tax nothing, but you can de-incentivize do-nothingness. I don't think we pay enough in taxes; we get $1's worth of government for 90 cents. However, I think that the burden of taxation should fall heavier on those with greater accumulation of capital; that has always been the case in every economic system extant.

[il Padrino Ute]

You can't tax nothing, but you can de-incentivize do-nothingness. I don't think we pay enough in taxes; we get $1's worth of government for 90 cents. However, I think that the burden of taxation should fall heavier on those with greater accumulation of capital; that has always been the case in every economic system extant.

You're correct that those who have more pay more taxes, no matter the economic system. That's how it is today in our system. The problem, as I see it, is that some never feel that it's enough. So I ask, how much is enough?

As for receiving $1 worth of government for 90 cents, perhaps rather than pay more, we should get less government.

[wuapinmon]

You're correct that those who have more pay more taxes, no matter the economic system. That's how it is today in our system. The problem, as I see it, is that some never feel that it's enough. So I ask, how much is enough?

As for receiving $1 worth of government for 90 cents, perhaps rather than pay more, we should get less government.

Enough? Good question. That's above my pay grade. I think we should get less government, but cutting things like Food Stamps isn't the answer.

[SeattleUte]

Why do Mormons hate intellectuals? No need to answer. I know why.

[il Padrino Ute]

Enough? Good question. That's above my pay grade. I think we should get less government, but cutting things like Food Stamps isn't the answer.

See? We do agree about some things. I've no problem with food stamps, as long as they're used for food only.

[il Padrino Ute]

Why do Mormons hate intellectuals? No need to answer. I know why.

We know you do. You never stop talking about it.

[pellegrino]

Agreed. Unions suck.

Unions are great insomuch as they actually help their members and the officers and representatives either volunteer their time or receive very little remuneration. When they become so large that they require heavy dues and become the only way to get a job within a specific sector or at a specific company then they become just another power structure that exploits its workers

[LA Ute]

Why do Mormons hate intellectuals? No need to answer. I know why.

If you were an intellectual I wouldn't hate you.

[frank ryan]

Unions are great insomuch as they actually help their members and the officers and representatives either volunteer their time or receive very little remuneration. When they become so large that they require heavy dues and become the only way to get a job within a specific sector or at a specific company then they become just another power structure that exploits its workers

Not every union is created equally. They are only as effective as their membership is active. Throughout labor history corrupt companies have set up fake bosses unions to further exploit the working class.

[frank ryan]

See? We do agree about some things. I've no problem with food stamps, as long as they're used for food only.

Unless they are selling them on the black market they can only be used for food.