Military Service Question

[KillerDog]

I have a family member who is considering joining the military (he keeps referencing the marines) and I was wondering if I could get some input/feedback from the guys on here who are closely tied to or are in the military.

1) This family member has a history of drug use. Can that history prevent him from military service?

2) This family member has been told that the military has a high incidence of suicide, is that accurate?

3) This family member has been told that the military has a high incidence of drug use, is that accurate?

3) What would happen if he were to join then quit/ditch out? Do we still hang people from yard arms or something for going AWOL?

4) This family member is a mama's boy, is the military a good environment to help him break out of that?

Any other advice or input is helpful.

[Goatnapper'96]

I have a family member who is considering joining the military (he keeps referencing the marines) and I was wondering if I could get some input/feedback from the guys on here who are closely tied to or are in the military.

1) This family member has a history of drug use. Can that history prevent him from military service?

2) This family member has been told that the military has a high incidence of suicide, is that accurate?

3) This family member has been told that the military has a high incidence of drug use, is that accurate?

3) What would happen if he were to join then quit/ditch out? Do we still hang people from yard arms or something for going AWOL?

4) This family member is a mama's boy, is the military a good environment to help him break out of that?

Any other advice or input is helpful.

I got out right before 9/11 and I can imagine a decade of constant war has had some impact. On the other hand methinks that the recent economic woes makes military service a more attractive option than unemployment.

From my experience and perspective:

1.) It could but I doubt it does. Recruiting has been struggling to meet its quota for some time so I would think that once he is clean long enough he will be fine. I highly doubt it is an issue. I got a top secret clearance because I put MI as one of my top 3 branches, I ended up in Armor, and suffice it to say I was not a bright and shining example of all things Section 89 and the interpretations thereof prior to attending West Point. It was the 80's people and I lived in LA, puff puff give..puff puff give!

2.) I think the military is stressful and there are some challenges but I don't know if your suicide quesiton is factual. The military goes out of its way and makes significant resources available for members struggling with mental issues. I, personally, think the military is very supportive. I would think that if somebody has that propensity they would be better supported in the military than any other employment he could find in the civilian world. There is no replacing family support, but the military chain of command goes to great lengths to help soldiers be protected.

3.) I don't think the military has a high drug use. They do random urinalysis and discharge those who are caught hot on piss tests. Once again it might have changed with the decade long war and the difficulty to recruit under current circumstances, but I still think that is a Vietnam War relic and the all volunteer service has significantly improved the caliber of those that serve, which might even be almost as smart as those the mighty Professor Woot instructs! That is not to say it is not available but it is certainly something one must search out. Now alcoholism is a much bigger concern than drug abuse. Alcohol flows pretty freely in the barracks. The military culture has an issue with alcohol. I don't know if that is concern of yours but from my experience alcohol related issues were significantly more frequent than drug related.

4.) If you go AWOL it would not be a good idea. How the military treats it is often a function of where your unit is before you go. Leaving Fort Polk gets one AWOL and that could permanently be a black mark on your record and impede much success in life acquiring employment or any government help. Going AWOL when your unit is deployed to Afghanastan is "desertion" and the maximum punishment is firing squad. I don't think they would do that but one would spend time in a military prison. If that is a serious concern I would recommend avoiding the service.

5.) I really don't know how much of a pussy he is and I doubt he does either. I had soldiers, successful career NCO types, that were complete dipshits in their pre-military life. Once they got into that disciplined structure and saw that they had the skills to be successful at it, they blossomed. Not all members of society want to go to college and get skills the market values in a classroom. The military can give folks who have a good work ethic and common sense the opportunity to get some success in life without having to pass through all the portals of events that much of our culture determines to be neccesary for upward mobility. Some people relate to that incentive more than traditional academia. Hating authority in high school is one thing and perhaps when he gets in the service and sees that in the military authority often comes as the result of performance, and not academic qualifications, he might respond to that incentives better. Just a thought.

[happyone]

I have a family member who is considering joining the military (he keeps referencing the marines) and I was wondering if I could get some input/feedback from the guys on here who are closely tied to or are in the military.

1) This family member has a history of drug use. Can that history prevent him from military service?

2) This family member has been told that the military has a high incidence of suicide, is that accurate?

3) This family member has been told that the military has a high incidence of drug use, is that accurate?

3) What would happen if he were to join then quit/ditch out? Do we still hang people from yard arms or something for going AWOL?

4) This family member is a mama's boy, is the military a good environment to help him break out of that?

Any other advice or input is helpful.

I'll add a couple of things to GN's comments. I work as DOD civilian, so I am somewhat familiar with the current standards

1. As long as he can pass a piss test on enlistment, he should be able to enlist. Once in, there is a no tolerence policy. You get caught once and you are discharged with a non honorable discharge.

2. I don't what the suicide rate is compared to the general population, but the military is very concerned about it. They are doing everything they can to spot potential suicides and preventing them. HAFB has had a rash of suicides lately, but is hasn't been amoung the uniformed personnel, it has been AF civilians

3, If he went AWOL to miss a movement, when they caught him he would spend some time as a guest of the Federal Govt at Ft. Leavenworth, plus get a bad discharge that whould follow him for the rest of his life.

4. It depends on how he reacts t0 discipline. If he has an extereme antiauthoritarian bent he might be in trouble. My cousin's son enlisted in the Marines and is doing great. He was something of a wild child in high school and has taken to the Marines like a duck to water. In 2 yrs he has had 2 merit promotions and is now an E-5, Sgt. (that is quick for those who don't know)

[Devildog]

I have a family member who is considering joining the military (he keeps referencing the marines) and I was wondering if I could get some input/feedback from the guys on here who are closely tied to or are in the military.

1) This family member has a history of drug use. Can that history prevent him from military service?

2) This family member has been told that the military has a high incidence of suicide, is that accurate?

3) This family member has been told that the military has a high incidence of drug use, is that accurate?

4) What would happen if he were to join then quit/ditch out? Do we still hang people from yard arms or something for going AWOL?

5) This family member is a mama's boy, is the military a good environment to help him break out of that?

Any other advice or input is helpful.

1) He will need to declare his drug use to his recruiter and obtain a waiver. Not that hard to do... however the Marines have specific slots to fill (for instance; helicopter mechanic, infantry, cook, etc)... some allow drug waivers others don't. His scores on the ASVAB test will determine what jobs he is eligible for.

2) Yes, especially lately with all the deployments new recruits can expect in their first enlistment.

3) In my experience in the Marine Corps infantry.... NO, not at all. Alcoholism is another story though. Tough to do in the Middle East, but much easier upon return to the states.

4) Prison, and they don't hesitate to court martial for serious issues of U.A. (unauthorized absence). Missing a movement is a big deal. Discipline in the military is completely different than the way most civilians understand it. Even new Marines understand what is expected of them... they spend months intensely teaching them their new reality (boot camp).

5) I think Goatnapper was a flyboy... so keep that in mind when you consider his perspective.

The Marines will kick his ass both mentally and physically. It is not an easy process to endure. They will change him... dramatically. He will be a stronger, more disciplined, responsible, and organized person.

What he sees in combat after bootcamp will stay with him forever and not all of it will be positive.

If he joins the Marines he will be deployed overseas... very soon after completing his initial training courses.

[Goatnapper'96]

1)
5) I think Goatnapper was a flyboy... so keep that in mind when you consider his perspective.

Let's get a few things straight:

1.) You are probably not as smart as the semi-literate students being mentored by mighty Professor Woot. So eat shit and die, you enlisted Leatherneck!

2.) Armor officer assigned to a Cavalry unit. 2nd Dragoons, principle unit that subjugated the Mormon Rebellion. Spent my time as a SCAT (Scout-AntiTank Platoon) Platoon Leader and then did the Troop XO and S-1 gig. I would rather you call me gay than a flyboy, although the redundancy is obvious and admitted (of course the obligatory not that there is anything wrong with that).

[Devildog]

Let's get a few things straight:

1.) You are probably not as smart as the semi-literate students being mentored by mighty Professor Woot. So eat shit and die, you enlisted Leatherneck!

2.) Armor officer assigned to a Cavalry unit. 2nd Dragoons, principle unit that subjugated the Mormon Rebellion. Spent my time as a SCAT (Scout-AntiTank Platoon) Platoon Leader and then did the Troop XO and S-1 gig. I would rather you call me gay than a flyboy, although the redundancy is obvious and admitted (of course the obligatory not that there is anything wrong with that).

I've been told that the Army has more Captains than the Marine Corps has officers from Second Lieutenant all the way to General. I can see why... you really can't expect that much from them.... well other than unmerited arrogance.

Still... the Army is a slight step up the testosterone scale from the Air Force.

[Goatnapper'96]

I've been told that the Army has more Captains than the Marine Corps has officers from Second Lieutenant all the way to General. I can see why... you really can't expect that much from them.... well other than unmerited arrogance.

Still... the Army is a slight step up the testosterone scale from the Air Force.

The Army is probably 10 times as big as the Marine Corps. Hence, it is likely to have 10 times as many Captains as the Marine Corps. I don't know how that correlates to O-3 in the US Army as a function of sum: (O-1USMC..O-10USMC). The Army takes and holds territory, the essential function of warfighting. Hence, it always looked to me like the rest are nothing more than support for the US Army.

Men in rags, men who froze yet the Army met its foes!

Don't hate me just because Professor Woot's hot undergrads are smarter than you folks. That was his conclusion and explanation for why you dumbshits on the forward edge of freedom were ruining his day - a day that might or might not have included falling victim to his most threatening occupational hazzard...THE DREADED PAPER CUT!

[Devildog]

I'm sure you know what the most dangerous thing in combat is... that's right... an officer with a map.

I don't dispute that it is the Army's job to win wars... the Marine's job is to win battles. That is why when the job is difficult and it has to be done right... they send in the Marines.

I give the Army credit for growing some decent Generals though... Patton would have made a fine Marine.

It's a good thing the fine professor has got someone to watch his back. I've seen some of the enemies of our country that wouldn't take kindly to the types of lessons he teaches and beliefs he holds.

The foot soldiers of our country are not the most educated individuals... but what they lack in refinement... they make up for in tenacity, cunning, and aggression.

[Goatnapper'96]

I'm sure you know what the most dangerous thing in combat is... that's right... an officer with a map.

I don't dispute that it is the Army's job to win wars... the Marine's job is to win battles. That is why when the job is difficult and it has to be done right... they send in the Marines.

I give the Army credit for growing some decent Generals though... Patton would have made a fine Marine.

It's a good thing the fine professor has got someone to watch his back. I've seen some of the enemies of our country that wouldn't take kindly to the types of lessons he teaches and beliefs he holds.

The foot soldiers of our countries are not the most educated individuals... but what they lack in refinement... they make up for in tenacity, cunning, and aggression.

1.) You wanna have a land nav open competition? Do you really, punk?

2.) Read your boardmail and you might better understand where I am coming from wrt the professor. I don't think you can understand how much we are in agreement wrt the "foot soldiers" in this great Republic of ours.

3.) General Patton would do better than a Marine. He was a spectacular Cavalryman!

[UtahDan]

This military banter is awesome. I grew up a stone's throw from the Pentagon so I heard a lot of it growing up. Tons of military brass in our ward including a three star who sat on the joint chiefs during the Clinton years. Anyway, for a period there was a Navy Captain in the ward (he moved on after a few years) as well as an Army Colonel and their back and forth was epic. I wish I remembered more of it. I do remember standing in the foyer once while the Captain talking to a newer member of the ward who said to him "now you are in the military aren't you?" The Colonel just happened to be walking by and without breaking stride said "he's not, he's in the Navy."

Now back to our regularly scheduled banter.

[Devildog]

Everyone has a purpose.

The job of kicking ass (killing our enemies and destroying their shit) belongs to those that can get it done. It isn't easy.

Most professors..... need not apply.

[wuapinmon]

Everyone has a purpose.

The job of kicking ass (killing our enemies and destroying their shit) belongs to those that can get it done. It isn't easy.

Most professors..... need not apply.

The pen is mightier, jarhead.

[Devildog]

Jarhead... isn't an insult to me.

Because I know what it means.

[wuapinmon]

Jarhead... isn't an insult to me.

Because I know what it means.

It wasn't meant as an insult. And, I never, ever, ever, use a word without knowing what it means. W.E.B. Griffin taught me well.

[Commando]

I am actually in the process of applying for JAG with the Air Force... I am kind of stoked about the adventure...