5 - life for the seminary sleazeball

[clackamascoug]

No. It was all wiped out in a massive snow slide several years ago. Some people are trying to drum up support to rebuild the tram, but I would hate to see that happen.

In '72 we went on a Boy Scout overnighter at the top of Bridal Veil. This kid Jeff putt a can of chili in the fire and it exploded quite perfectly, and splattered about 10 people. We got him back by peeing in his canteen. Good Times. Jeff, did you ever live on Grandview Hill?

[Green Monstah]

This is going to sound crass...but does forcible sodomy get a mere five year term? Maybe the definition is broader than what I think it is (to include oral sex, etc.), but for whatever reason, that charge bothers me a bit.

[RC Vikings]

This is going to sound crass...but does forcible sodomy get a mere five year term? Maybe the definition is broader than what I think it is (to include oral sex, etc.), but for whatever reason, that charge bothers me a bit.

I'm trying to think how forcible sodomy even happens because apart from tying her down I would think it would take two people working together to get this done. Maybe I'm just being naive but it would be nice if someone with some experience could weigh in here.

[Commando]

This is going to sound crass...but does forcible sodomy get a mere five year term? Maybe the definition is broader than what I think it is (to include oral sex, etc.), but for whatever reason, that charge bothers me a bit.

Maybe the idea is that since she is 16 and, by operation of law, not able to give consent, any sodomy (which is contact between the genitals of one person and the mouth or anus of another) would be considered forcible.

So he goes down on her and the charge is forcible sodomy, which should be reduced to sexual battery (unwanted sexual contact), but Utah's statute for sexual battery doesn't encompass abuse of a minor and is relatively small potatoes. Forcible sodomy it is.

[jay santos]

This is going to sound crass...but does forcible sodomy get a mere five year term? Maybe the definition is broader than what I think it is (to include oral sex, etc.), but for whatever reason, that charge bothers me a bit.

Sodomy = oral sex
Forcible = with a minor who does not have right to consent

I'm all for grace, but crimes like this should be punished. The issue is that there really is a big difference even a 16 yo girl between an innocent (about sexual matters) girl that you manipulate and a fully developed sexually active girl that could be an equal instigator (think Don't Stand So Close to Me). I know nothing of the victim of this case, and it's probably impossible to take this into account because then you put the victim on trial.

[Non Sequitur]

I'm trying to think how forcible sodomy even happens because apart from tying her down I would think it would take two people working together to get this done. Maybe I'm just being naive but it would be nice if someone with some experience could weigh in here.

In Utah, the definition of sodomy encompasses oral sex. When it involves a minor and someone in a position of authority, that classifies it as "forcible" sodomy. The article makes it makes it sound like he raped her in the ass, but according to Utah law, her giving him a blow job constitutes forcible sodomy on his part.

[RC Vikings]

In Utah, the definition of sodomy encompasses oral sex. When it involves a minor and someone in a position of authority, that classifies it as "forcible" sodomy. The article makes it makes it sound like he raped her in the ass, but according to Utah law, her giving him a blow job constitutes forcible sodomy on his part.

That makes more sense. It's still not right but it makes more sense.

[Green Monstah]

In Utah, the definition of sodomy encompasses oral sex. When it involves a minor and someone in a position of authority, that classifies it as "forcible" sodomy. The article makes it makes it sound like he raped her in the ass, but according to Utah law, her giving him a blow job constitutes forcible sodomy on his part.

Gotcha.

[falafel]

In my state, the courts have decided that somebody her age, regardless of personal progression or circumstance lacks the capacity to consent to sexual relations with an adult.

I have no idea whether 1 year, 5, or 10 years is enough. It should be similar to other offenders.

But does a 16-year old have the capacity to consent to marriage (assuming her parents consent too)? As wuap noted, that's a little jacked up.

[UtahDan]

But does a 16-year old have the capacity to consent to marriage (assuming her parents consent too)? As wuap noted, that's a little jacked up.

To me the thing that is aggravating (in the legal sense) here that probably makes the sentence a little more stiff is the fact that he is in a position of trust and authority. If she goes out to a bar with a fake ID and meets some dude my guess is the sentence is much lower. And I do think it is right that one in authority gets a harder sentence.

So are people ready to take this thread in the Joseph Smith/FLDS church direction?

[wuapinmon]

To me the thing that is aggravating (in the legal sense) here that probably makes the sentence a little more stiff is the fact that he is in a position of trust and authority. If she goes out to a bar with a fake ID and meets some dude my guess is the sentence is much lower. And I do think it is right that one in authority gets a harder sentence.

I think you're absolutely right, UtahDan.

[BlueHair]

To me the thing that is aggravating (in the legal sense) here that probably makes the sentence a little more stiff is the fact that he is in a position of trust and authority. If she goes out to a bar with a fake ID and meets some dude my guess is the sentence is much lower. And I do think it is right that one in authority gets a harder sentence.

So are people ready to take this thread in the Joseph Smith/FLDS church direction?

Would the guy in your example get charged? I can't imagine someone getting charged if the girl looks over 21 and has an ID to prove it. I wouldn't even think to ask her age if she was in a bar and looked old enough.

[UtahDan]

Would the guy in your example get charged? I can't imagine someone getting charged if the girl looks over 21 and has an ID to prove it. I wouldn't even think to ask her age if she was in a bar and looked old enough.

Yes he would. Believe it or not, ignorance is not a defense. At least not in my state.

[creekster]

Yes he would. Believe it or not, ignorance is not a defense. At least not in my state.

He COULD be charged. Prosecutorial discretion can play into that quesiton on a close call.

[UtahDan]

He COULD be charged. Prosecutorial discretion can play into that quesiton on a close call.

Right. Good point.

EDIT: I will hasten to add that when you have a family jumping up and down (as here) the politics often mean that the charge is brought and then later dropped or reduced. But when the family wants blood a prosecutor, especially if they are elected, is not going to flatly tell them no too often. At least not at first. This is what I have observed anyway.