Data Centers - NIMBY or YIMBY?

[Jeff Lebowski]

This whole data center thing is blowing up to the extent that it probably deserves a thread. They hysteria is off the charts. Bernie/AOC have introduced an anti-DC bill to congress. And Matt Walsh is on the anti-DC bandwagon:

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As for the water issue, DCs use a tiny fraction of the water we use for golf courses. Or almonds:

[Northwestcoug]

Almond growing in California should be illegal. Slightly TIC.

Having said that, I'm interested in watching that DC water use graph for the next decade.

[USUC]

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It feels like this hysteria is no different than most of the past fits of hysteria with new technology. This was a political cartoon expressing the coming doom from electricity.

[LVAllen]

I need an option for NIABY.

[All-American]

I need an option for NIABY.

I’m with you. The Bronze Age really wasn’t that bad.

[Moliere]

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It feels like this hysteria is no different than most of the past fits of hysteria with new technology. This was a political cartoon expressing the coming doom from electricity.

Exactly. So what if it eliminates jobs. We can always give those people shovels and have them dig ditches one day and then fill in the ditches the next day.

My own opinion is that the outrage on this one is due to the type of jobs at stake. It’s always been the laborers and blue collar workers at risk all through the Industrial Revolution. Now it’s the white collar jobs that are at risk. But we’ll adapt and survive and even thrive in a AI world.

[Shaka]

I thought your comparison to the fracking debate was excellent. Soooooo much misinformation.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I need an option for NIABY.

This is an insane take.

Our national security is 100% reliant on remaining at the forefront of AI. If you have been following the Claude Mythos model (yet unreleased) you may have heard that it has insanely powerful cybersecurity features and it found countless holes in major US corporation data infrastructure. Imagine if we were to opt out of AI and allowed China to be the sole AI superpower. They could bring us to our knees in a week.

Furthermore:

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[Jeff Lebowski]

I thought your comparison to the fracking debate was excellent. Soooooo much misinformation.

The anti-fracking movement was also built on a foundation of made-up nonsense, much of which was centered around the contamination of groundwater. There was never any significant risk of that happening, given that oil reservoirs are far beneath aquifers. Good grief, we don't pump groundwater out of an oil reservoir. And if the fracking liquid could contaminate water, imagine what the crude oil would do. Of course we don't hear too much of that now, because fracking is used everywhere and our groundwater is fine.

Sadly, the nuclear power hysteria was more effective and the USA opted for coal-fired power plants instead of nuclear plants. Imagine if we had nuclear plants to power these data centers.

[frank ryan]

The anti-fracking movement was also built on a foundation of made-up nonsense, much of which was centered around the contamination of groundwater. There was never any significant risk of that happening, given that oil reservoirs are far beneath aquifers. Good grief, we don't pump groundwater out of an oil reservoir. And if the fracking liquid could contaminate water, imagine what the crude oil would do. Of course we don't hear too much of that now, because fracking is used everywhere and our groundwater is fine.

Sadly, the nuclear power hysteria was more effective and the USA opted for coal-fired power plants instead of nuclear plants. Imagine if we had nuclear plants to power these data centers.

Haven't some countries like France used nuclear energy in a responsible manner.

There isn't an energy source that won't come without some risk, but it seems like a no brainer.

[PaloAltoCougar]

The anti-fracking movement was also built on a foundation of made-up nonsense, much of which was centered around the contamination of groundwater. There was never any significant risk of that happening, given that oil reservoirs are far beneath aquifers. Good grief, we don't pump groundwater out of an oil reservoir. And if the fracking liquid could contaminate water, imagine what the crude oil would do. Of course we don't hear too much of that now, because fracking is used everywhere and our groundwater is fine.

Sadly, the nuclear power hysteria was more effective and the USA opted for coal-fired power plants instead of nuclear plants. Imagine if we had nuclear plants to power these data centers.

i know next to nothing about fracking and have no argument to make on either side. Are you saying fracking doesn't cause any significant problems, or that the benefits of fracking significantly outweigh the downside risks? I've been under the impression that there are significant environmental and health risks. And yes, more nukes, please.

[falafel]

This whole data center thing is blowing up to the extent that it probably deserves a thread. They hysteria is off the charts. Bernie/AOC have introduced an anti-DC bill to congress. And Matt Walsh is on the anti-DC bandwagon:

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As for the water issue, DCs use a tiny fraction of the water we use for golf courses. Or almonds:

Isn't the Utah data center predicted to use more energy than the entire state? Not sure why we are talking about the water so much.

[Jeff Lebowski]

i know next to nothing about fracking and have no argument to make on either side. Are you saying fracking doesn't cause any significant problems, or that the benefits of fracking significantly outweigh the downside risks? I've been under the impression that there are significant environmental and health risks. And yes, more nukes, please.

Perhaps both, but mainly the former. Oil reservoirs are much much deeper than the water we withdraw from aquifers. So the fracking occurs in deep rock, not the shallow water bearing strata where we pump water. The risk of cross contamination is miniscule.

Fracking has been one of the greatest inventions ever. We are able to pull massive quantities of oil from reservoirs that were long considered tapped out.

[falafel]

Perhaps both, but mainly the former. Oil reservoirs are much much deeper than the water we withdraw from aquifers. So the fracking occurs in deep rock, not the shallow water bearing strata where we pump water. The risk of cross contamination is miniscule.

Fracking has been one of the greatest inventions ever. We are able to pull massive quantities of oil from reservoirs that were long considered tapped out.

And we now produce the most oil in the world, more than 2x the Saudis' production.

[Moliere]

Isn't the Utah data center predicted to use more energy than the entire state? Not sure why we are talking about the water so much.

Probably because the energy isn’t an issue given that the pipeline that runs next to the proposed site has plenty of capacity for the data center…well unless they go to the final phase which wouldn’t be for a long long time.