Population Decline

[Green Monstah]

So where will the immigration come from?

Islam.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yes, in the context of population demographics. But individually who are you or I to judge our lifestyle reasons are better than anyone else's when considering family planning?

I think we're in pretty close agreement with the problem here. I just feel uncomfortable giving blanket accusations based on seflishness to people who aren't procreating.

When we are talking about society as a whole prioritizing personal convenience (free time, more money, less hassle, whatever) over having multiple children, even at the cost of a bleak future for humanity, what word would you use to describe it? If that is not a form of selfishness, what is?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Islam.

Yes.

One of the jokes about genocide accusations toward Israel is that they must be terrible at it because the Palestinian population keeps growing exponentially. We have some good friends from Palestine and they have 7-8 kids. They openly brag that the most potent weapon against Israel is the womb of a Palestinian woman. Muslims in general quite literally see having lots of kids and thereby spreading Islam over the world as one of their foundational duties in life.

[Northwestcoug]

When we are talking about society as a whole prioritizing personal convenience (free time, more money, less hassle, whatever) over having multiple children, even at the cost of a bleak future for humanity, what word would you use to describe it? If that is not a form of selfishness, what is?

It sounds like you are veering towards giving blanket statements of selfishness to anyone who does not procreate at a level sufficient to stave off demographic collapse. Since there are multiple reasons why people are having less kids these days, I'm not comfortable doing this.

Dude, can't you see that in our culture someone a generation ago could level a selfishness accusation to either one of us because we decided to stop at 4 kids???

[Green Monstah]

What I think is interesting (and counter to my assertion) is that fertility rates are declining in Indonesia, Iran and Bangladesh. Will that spread to other majority-Muslim countries?

[Green Monstah]

I have six amazing kids. Some of you slackers need to up your repro game.

[Northwestcoug]

I have six amazing kids. Some of you slackers need to up your repro game.

Ha.

Last week we went to the Y Creamery and the street location reminded me of one of those long walks Mrs. NWC and I had while planning a life together. I sprung on her my desire to have 6 children. She countered with 4. And then later in life when I could have stopped earlier she kept going until her desired outcome. Dammit, she always wins out

[Jeff Lebowski]

It sounds like you are veering towards giving blanket statements of selfishness to anyone who does not procreate at a level sufficient to stave off demographic collapse. Since there are multiple reasons why people are having less kids these days, I'm not comfortable doing this.

Dude, can't you see that in our culture someone a generation ago could level a selfishness accusation to either one of us because we decided to stop at 4 kids???

Of course individual circumstances vary. I am giving a blanket statement to modern society as a whole.

But for modern society to be in a population freefall means that lots of individuals are choosing convenience over procreation.

How is that even controversial?

You are killing me, Smalls.

[Goatnapper'96]

I have six amazing kids. Some of you slackers need to up your repro game.

I can assure you that it was our intent to have more than 4. It is the Almighty's fault that nobody confused my lil swimmers with Michael Phelps. Our oldest should have been ur 3rd or 4th-the Rockland Bulldogs would have had their first Idaho 1A State Championship glory long before they did......GO BULLDOGS!

[tooblue]

Of course individual circumstances vary. I am giving a blanket statement to modern society as a whole.

But for modern society to be in a population freefall means that lots of individuals are choosing convenience over procreation.

How is that even controversial?

You are killing me, Smalls.

I can understand Northwest's perspective, but I find myself largely agreeing with Lebowski. Having wrestled with this question, because I live in a place where population decline is pronounced, I think the choice sits somewhere between selfishness and conceit.

Interacting daily with a large number of people who have chosen not to have children, or likely never will, the word that best describes that choice may be egotism: a tendency to filter everything through the lens of "how does everything affect me?"

An egotist prioritizes their own needs and desires without much awareness of the potential cost to others ... or to something larger than themselves. This is reflected in the attitude of the woman profiled in the WSJ article by the very fact that she raised the question of legacy.

She will have no legacy because both her and her art are pedestrian.

[Northwestcoug]

Of course individual circumstances vary. I am giving a blanket statement to modern society as a whole.

But for modern society to be in a population freefall means that lots of individuals are choosing convenience over procreation.

How is that even controversial?

You are killing me, Smalls.

I don't even know what we're arguing about now...

Can we just say that since many adults are not choosing to have kids due to individual circumstances of which a component of what could be described as selfishness plays a part, the world is facing demographic collapse? But there are many valid reasons for individuals not to procreate at a level to stave off said collapse?

Does that cover everything that we could conceivably argue about?

[frank ryan]

I agree…we are talking about Ute fans, right?

Yes. Several of the people I am thinking about are U grads.

[Pelado]

It sounds like you are veering towards giving blanket statements of selfishness to anyone who does not procreate at a level sufficient to stave off demographic collapse. Since there are multiple reasons why people are having less fewer kids these days, I'm not comfortable doing this.

Dude, can't you see that in our culture someone a generation ago could level a selfishness accusation to either one of us because we decided to stop at 4 kids???

fify, I think

I have six amazing kids. Some of you slackers need to up your repro game.

If I am to up my repro game, I'll need a new partner. Pretty sure the existing partner is not on board with that.

[BigPiney]

I have 5, wish we would have stopped at 2.