Population Decline

[Goatnapper'96]

Super interesting thread. Even if Chinese women start cranking out 2-3 babies each, it wouldn't matter. There just aren't enough young Chinese women alive to stop the free fall.

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While still groomable the backside/population decline is a good black diamond!

[wally]

Super interesting thread. Even if Chinese women start cranking out 2-3 babies each, it wouldn't matter. There just aren't enough young Chinese women alive to stop the free fall.

I feel like this is part of the reason why China is full-on racing toward ai. I have always been told that the power of a nation is threefold: economy, military, and population. With ai, maybe the population part is mitigated?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I feel like this is part of the reason why China is full-on racing toward ai. I have always been told that the power of a nation is threefold: economy, military, and population. With ai, maybe the population part is mitigated?

Yeah, for sure. Which is one of the reasons people argue AI is a good long-term investment. People talk about job elimination but we need to eliminate jobs due to declining population.

[wally]

Yeah, for sure. Which is one of the reasons people argue AI is a good long-term investment. People talk about job elimination but we need to eliminate jobs due to declining population.

But..... the global population is not declining.... so basically ai will be a mechanism to eliminate the need for immigration in wealthy developed countries???

[Jeff Lebowski]

But..... the global population is not declining.... so basically ai will be a mechanism to eliminate the need for immigration in wealthy developed countries???

Birthrates are declining globally. 2.2 births per woman currently. South America is down to 1.8.

[wally]

Birthrates are declining globally. 2.2 births per woman currently. South America is down to 1.8.

I stand corrected.

[Northwestcoug]

Jokes aside, the perception that no one can afford kids anymore is pretty much cemented in my kids' generation. It has to be addressed.

[chrisrenrut]

Jokes aside, the perception that no one can afford kids anymore is pretty much cemented in my kids' generation. It has to be addressed.

I have some recent expertise kid expenses. A week’s worth of formula for one of the grand littles is $45. A kid goes through about $5 of diapers a day. That is $330 per month for one kid just for the basics. I strongly encouraged the mom to apply for SNAP and WIC to try and offset part of the costs. She has two other kids (one still in diapers) and her paycheck from her job at Target is gone before the expenses are.

[Moliere]

The perception isn’t correct. Our kids generation thinks they need to buy all the best stuff for kids right away, including paying insane amounts for college and buying a car for them when they turn 16. When I hear kids say they can’t afford to have kids, what I hear is that they would rather spend money and time on superficial
things instead of taking real responsibility. For proof, we have a lot of young families in our ward with multiple kids and they seem to be doing just fine, granted they aren’t vacationing in Europe every year or driving BMWs.

[BigFatMeanie]

$5 of diapers a day? $150 a month? Yowza!

There are alternatives. It wasn’t that long ago when parents used cloth diapers and washed them out by hand. Still do in many parts of the world.

[BigFatMeanie]

From some random web site, take it for what it’s worth:

In the 1950’s nearly 100 percent of babies wore cloth diapers and were potty trained before they hit 18 months. Today, over 90 percent of babies wear disposable diapers and only around 10 percent complete potty training by 18 months. The average age a child completes potty training today is 30 months

[Northwestcoug]

The perception isn’t correct. Our kids generation thinks they need to buy all the best stuff for kids right away, including paying insane amounts for college and buying a car for them when they turn 16. When I hear kids say they can’t afford to have kids, what I hear is that they would rather spend money and time on superficial
things instead of taking real responsibility. For proof, we have a lot of young families in our ward with multiple kids and they seem to be doing just fine, granted they aren’t vacationing in Europe every year or driving BMWs.

Yeah but they live in Texas. If moving there is required to afford kids, I don't blame them for hastening the acopalypse

But seriously, the perception isn't all false. It is clearly more expensive to have children now than it was just a generation ago. It's not just vibes. Housing costs and wages not keeping up with those are real.

I'll give you that the current expectations of child rearing need a reality check in a lot of ways. We sacrificed in ways that our children reject out of hand.

[chrisrenrut]

From some random web site, take it for what it’s worth:

I can’t imagine our near 2 year old being potty trained. He has a limited vocabulary, and a defiant disposition. I’ll have to ask my mom how old me and my siblings were when we left diapers behind.

Me and my siblings were raised on cloth diapers, and I still remember the diaper pail smell (ew). But my mom was a SAHM, so a single income household.. She could keep up with the extra laundry. We scrimped. I had a paper route at 11:00 so I could earn my own spending money. My mother sewed some of our clothes, I remember shopping not at clothes stores but fabric shops.

SAHM is almost impossible now unless one parent is making at least 6 digure income. It’s anecdotal from my family, ward, and job, but most moms have at least a pet time job or side gig.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Our granddaughter just turned two years old and is still in diapers, which is kind of weird because she’s super smart. Our daughter-in-law took her to check out a really fun preschool the other day, but they said she couldn’t attend unless she was potty trained. That’s all it took. She immediately pulled that diaper off and got herself potty trained ASAP. Lol.

[dabrockster]

Jokes aside, the perception that no one can afford kids anymore is pretty much cemented in my kids' generation. It has to be addressed.

Freezing bread. Why is that a bad thing?? That is all we did as a kid and what I do now. Cost-saving measures is a good thing.

The problem is this generation is pampered and even have a mind of entitlement (Even when we do not instill that in them.). Example: My son and I have butted heads since his return from his mission. He has decided now is the time to act like he knows it all and his work-ethic has been shoved aside. He takes the opinion of my happiness and time is more valuable than my desire to work. Soo. He doesn’t show up to work consistently, he takes off for the dumbest reasons (My GF parents are in town so I am taking off to be with them).. We still support him and he did not have to work his first year at BYU. I put my foot down (As much as my wife would let me) and removed that and he now has a stipend from us (Still more than I wanted to give him). He works at MTC now and is working to get certified as a financial advisor to earn some money. I support this and maybe he could be a seminary teacher and have this as a supplemental income. We will see.

We never raised him to be this way, but in the past few years his fundamental work ethic has shifted (I blame BYU) . He truly LOVES his religion courses and spends a ton of his time studying for them. I love this but it has hindered his focus in other courses. He paints this idea that his spirituality is more important and will not over work himself. He will get by on a measly income. He has this vision of being a true example of setting his life to God’s plan. Wants to be an Institute teacher or Professor of religion at BYU. That is a hard goal considering the path to get there. He didn’t like the reality-check conversation I had on this and pouted that I was making him feel some kinda way. I find it very noble but not reality and wanted to let him know that path takes effort too. There is a balance between working hard to achieve your goals and retaining your spirituality. He has yet to find it. But. His GF graduates from BYU and plans to be a Research Dr. and likely the breadwinner of the home. Sooo. He will become the SAHD.. I guess.

I think he saw me work 3/4 jobs his entire life to give him everything he wanted and for our family and doesn’t want to be like that. Instead of being grateful for my efforts, he sees it as a bad thing. I guess he will see why it is like once he gets married and he is fully on his own. No insurance, no stipend. Nothing.