Obama Favored in 2012

[Uncle Ted]

As for health care, I disagree with you. The reason the healthcare bill is important is because it is as big a step toward single-payer as we were able to get. There wasn't the political will to do more. But now, if the insurance companies abuse the public mandate, the taxpayers will revolt, maybe with a public option. I think the bill was pretty clever in this sense. It is a kind of ultimatum to the insurance companies -- we the public will give you a LOT of new business, much of it backed by the American tax payers, but you will also be scrutinized much closer than ever, and if you break the public's trust, you will suffer. I have come to grips with the healthcare bill. It was the best that could be done, and if the insurance companies fail to deliver, it sets up a path for the next thing.

So how, exactly, is moving toward a single-payer system is a good thing? Use Canada's system as a case study...

[YOUTUBE]tD2UUH4E2Xs[/YOUTUBE]

[RobinFinderson]

You really believe those talking points that the cause of out of control health costs are those demonizing insurance companies?

I think insurance companies have created an inadequate check on consumer price shopping. This has rippled through the field at all levels, as everyone from hospitals to medical supplies manufacturers have pushed to see how much more profit they could squeeze out of the insurance company before they would flinch. Insurance companies found it more difficult (expensive) to curb these costs than it was to police their customers, so they spent their money on denying claims instead of keeping down medical costs.

[beefytee]

So how, exactly, is moving toward a single-payer system is a good thing? Use Canada's system as a case study...

[YOUTUBE]tD2UUH4E2Xs[/YOUTUBE]

I watched that for about 2 minutes and it was a load of crap and turned it off.

And I'm not a huge fan of single payer systems. It is ten times better than the current system we have here though (Hint: we don't have a free market system here).

[Uncle Ted]

I watched that for about 2 minutes and it was a load of crap and turned it off.

He documents all his points: http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/t/21561.aspx

I would be interested in which points he makes exactly are a load of crap in your opinion.

And I'm not a huge fan of single payer systems. It is ten times better than the current system we have here though (Hint: we don't have a free market system here).

Yes, our system isn't a free market system and has become more and more shitty over the last 30-40 years with more government regulation/involvement and thanks, in part, to lobbying from folks like the AMA.

Most likely the closest thing to a free market health care system is the Singapore Model which seems to be working pretty damm well if you measure it by the standard benchmarks.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

The GOP has a number of "Up and Comers." Chris Christie comes to mind for the 2012 slate alone. If Obama can be elected after basically being a Senator for two years then running for President for two years, then Marco Rubio will be ready in 2016.

Oh yeah, there are rumblings that Jeb Bush could be a possibility. Before everyone laughs, just realize that Bush 41 has remained personally popular despite Bush 43's Presidency, so it's no guarantee that W's mistakes will attach themselves to Jeb Bush. Jeb was a very popular governor in a swing state.

[beefytee]

He documents all his points: http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/t/21561.aspx

I would be interested in which points he makes exactly are a load of crap in your opinion.

The whole issue with Canada having a good program because of free market residue. There have been aspects of socialized medicine in Canada since 1946. So this has been happening for 60 years. There was plenty of opportunity for any doctor or health care worker to head off to the States to work if they wanted to be in a "free market" health care system. My grandmother was a nurse and went to the states during the depression to work.

How many doctors go into medicine thinking about its "Free market"ness? Sure most go into it because of the money, but the same is true of doctors in Canada.

[wally]

So how, exactly, is moving toward a single-payer system is a good thing? Use Canada's system as a case study...

A blog I found interesting (obviously opposed to Obamacare):

http://www.thredgold.com/tea-leaf/

Quote on Canada:

A recent Reuters headline noted, “Soaring Costs Force Canada to Reassess Health Model.” The article notes that with pressure from an aging population and the need to rein in budget deficits, Canada’s provinces are taking tough measures to curb healthcare costs.

Healthcare in Canada is delivered through a publicly funded system, which covers all “medically necessary” hospital and physician care. It now accounts for roughly 40% of provincial budgets. Such spending was a mere 7% of provincial government expenditures in the 1970s (Investor’s Business Daily).

United Kingdom:

The National Health Service (NHS) is the U.K. version of government-run health care. It is the largest employer in Europe with more than 1.3 million employees, and has been around for 62 years. It has an annual budget equivalent to more than $160 billion (The Wall Street Journal).

It is now planning to undergo a major overhaul that will (in theory) cut high swaths of bureaucracy by eliminating a layer of financial managers. The plan is to put more power in the hands of doctors to decide how to spend the money…

…what a concept!

The plan calls for reducing management costs by more than 45% over the next four years. Unfortunately, placing the words “reducing management costs” and “government” in the same sentence rarely, if ever, succeeds.

Various proposals to help control hospital costs have been suggested or—on occasion—enacted. These have included removing every third light bulb in a corridor, asking patients to bring their own medicines from home, cutting the number of sterile packs used, and not changing the sheets between patients, but merely turning them over.

[beefytee]

A blog I found interesting (obviously opposed to Obamacare):

http://www.thredgold.com/tea-leaf/

Quote on Canada:



United Kingdom:

You realize that rate are skyrocketing in the States too, don't you?

These countries are at least addressing it. The US currently isn't unfortunately.