Did you see this Trib article?

[Hallelujah]

They're also a lot more likely to be on government assistance and therefore receive well in excess of any meager sums contributed by their employer on their behalf.

Ask Tim and Flystripper how much illegals cost the state of California in terms of health, education, crime?

I'm sure they know. It's a net positive! LOL

[wuapinmon]

Do you ever think before you type, or do you just go with the first thought that pops into your head?

The troll doesn't like being trolled, eh?

[falafel]

So stealing/forging SS is not a crime in your SimCity?

Have you ever seen Legally Blonde? There's a great explanation of the differences between malum in se crimes and malum prohibitum crimes. Pluse Elle Woods is hot!

[The Fourth Nephite]

The troll doesn't like being trolled, eh?

I'm not a troll. I'm a valuable, contributing member of this forum. I've got 169 posts.

The fellow asked if illegals hurt the average american and I provided an example of how I was hurt by illegals.

As for trolls, maybe you should look in a mirror. You're the one going around calling people "morons".

[Eddie]

I have to admit that I haven't read much of these reports looking into what harm - if any - is done by the undocumented immigrant folks.

But I do have to wonder about the harm to the economy from money being earned in the US but not spent in the US.

I know this isn't true of all - but I do know there are a number of undocumented folks who work in the US and send as much of their income as they can to family at home. A friend worked at a meat packing plant with some of these guys. There were 8 of them living in a two bedroom apartment working rotating shifts so they weren't all there at the same time. Living together like that, their cost of living was much lower. They told him they were able to send as much as 70% of their paycheck to their family.

Now, I know we aren't talking about huge sums of money here - but I can't help but believe that spending that money here would help the local economy.

And maybe that's an arguement for making immigration easier - maybe they would be more likely to bring their family with them.

But I suspect not. I suspect the difference in cost of living means that Daddy will stay and work in the US while the family stays where they are. A nice couple (documented folks, btw) who used to clean my office building retired last year and moved to Mexico because their retirement dollar goes further.

Anyway - just a couple of thoughts.

[thesaint258]

I love IPU! I barbecued with him for a number of years. I've been to games with him. He's my friend on facebook. This is just politics talk!

Doh! I can't believe I violated my own rule and took something on this forum seriously. Oh well.

[wuapinmon]

I'm not a troll. I'm a valuable, contributing member of this forum. I've got 169 posts.

The fellow asked if illegals hurt the average american and I provided an example of how I was hurt by illegals.

As for trolls, maybe you should look in a mirror. You're the one going around calling people "morons".

I have a long memory.

[Non Sequitur]

I was talking to my daughter a while ago, and she started going off on illegal immigrants who are stealing American jobs. I told her that she's not competing for jobs with illegal immigrants -- she's competing for jobs with people in Bangalore. And those people in Bangalore aren't putting money back into our economy. I'm not a big fan of illegal immigration, but I'm a lot more concerned about about the glut of jobs being sent overseas to people who do not participate in our economy. That's what deserves our outrage.

[The Fourth Nephite]

I have a long memory.

And a short penis.

[New Mexican Disaster]

And a short penis.

Shows what you are thinking about.

Now that is a troll.

[BoylenOver]

Have you ever seen Legally Blonde? There's a great explanation of the differences between malum in se crimes and malum prohibitum crimes. Pluse Elle Woods is hot!

Her boyfriend looks like Chris Pronger.

Also, the "bend and snap" is surprisingly useful in the real world.

[Goatnapper'96]

Ya know, knuckledragger, this is one of the best posts/thoughts that I've read anywhere in a long time. While I might not share a couple of your concerns, you have expressed yourself in such a way as to leave no doubt about your sincerity, generosity, and magnanimity.

Anytime you say something nice to me I imagine you as Herman Munster and me as Vinny BagODonuts from that great American cinematic classic "My Cousin Vinny," as I wait for you to say "objection OVERRULED!"

[NorthShoreCoug]

http://sltrib.com/sltrib/home/500038...wrote.html.csp

Do illegals hurt the average American?

I'm pretty strongly on the side of enforcing immigration law and trying to shut off the flow of illegal immigrants. But I think fusnik's question is only half of the question to consider when trying to figure out what to do. I'd word it this way:

First, does our current immigration system harm our society? And secondly, does the same system harm the illegal immigrants?

In this context, I'd broadly define our "current immigration system" as the pertinent immigration laws, enforcement (or lack thereof) of those laws, and the illegal immigrants.

IMO, our current system is immoral. It is immoral because it rewards people who refuse to follow the acceptable rules established voluntarily by a society, often at the expense of those who do follow those rules. It is immoral because the system results in very large numbers of specific laws that are broken by the immigrants and inconsistently enforced by those entrusted to enforce those laws. It is immoral because this pattern makes a mockery of the rule of law. It is immoral because it results in an entire class of people who live in the shadows - are law breakers by definition, very often break additional laws to maintain their status, and are therefore highly susceptible to exploitation. It is immoral because they ARE exploited - by business owners and politicians, most importantly, but also by you and me, sometimes directly, but alwasy indirectly.

But overgeneralizing, the republicans want to exploit them as cheap labor, the democrats want to exploit them politically, and all of us want to exploit them to buy more cheap goods. So nothing is done, and the immoral system just keeps on going.