Why doesn't it surprise me

[RobinFinderson]

LOL. Yeah, that's the direction they would go to resolve that little problem.

Look at CA. Right now we are GUTTING social programs. You think things would be radically different?

But what you seem to be implying is that you would oppose a free-market approach to immigration because you are afraid that immigrants would be liberal. I don't think that is very solid ground for a debate about immigration policy.

[Indy Coug]

Look at CA. Right now we are GUTTING social programs. You think things would be radically different?

But what you seem to be implying is that you would oppose a free-market approach to immigration because you are afraid that immigrants would be liberal. I don't think that is very solid ground for a debate about immigration policy.

California can't print its own money.

[byu71]

I find it interesting that conservatives would oppose open borders in order to protect the solvency of big government social programs. If the newcomers would make these programs insolvent, that seems like a pretty direct route to shrinking the size of government.

I think anarchy in the streets come before they accept losing their entitlements.

In Greece can you believe there are some, I believe labor unions, who are refusing to accept "cuts" in order to get the bail out for their country. Do these people really believe someone somewhere just wants to hand them money so they can continue their entitlements forever.

If you don't think that kind of thinking isn't starting to take hold here in the good ole USA, you just don't like to face reality.

[beefytee]

Look at CA. Right now we are GUTTING social programs. You think things would be radically different?

But what you seem to be implying is that you would oppose a free-market approach to immigration because you are afraid that immigrants would be liberal. I don't think that is very solid ground for a debate about immigration policy.

Considering the fact that the federal government can print its own money, there would probably be a difference.

Edit: Crap, I'm a hack!

[RobinFinderson]

California can't print its own money.

Neither can immigrants.

[il Padrino Ute]

Just curious, when was it tried? Also, what you are suggesting sounds similar to a proposal from Senators Charles E. Schumer and Lindsey Graham in which they would have to pay fines and back taxes. I'd be in favor of something like that as long as they are given a reasonable amount of time to pay off the fine as many of them are struggling to get by already.

Here's a good summary of the various amnesty acts passed since Reagan granted amnesty to 4 million illegals in 1986:

http://www.theamericanresistance.com...s/amnesty.html

And I agree with you that these folks should be given a reasonable amount of time to pay the fines.

[ewth8tr]

Amnesty was given to a huge number of people during the Reagan administration. I think it hard to find the right balance. We certainly need to incorporate, legally, those who are here. But if there is no penalty involved, there will be no incentive to use legal processes in the future. We have seen how reluctant people are to enforce immigration laws, many folks simply favor not having them. We have to create a system where there is an incentive to use the legal processes. Current there is nearly zero.

Thanks, I just found it and I was only 6 at the time, so I wasn't aware of it.

I agree with you in that something needs to be figured out where those that are already here, obeying all other laws and contributing to society. My daughters have best friends (sisters) whose mother is a citizen, but their father is undocumented. They had saved up for 5 years to be able to afford an immigration attorney in order to try to get him legal, only to have the attorney disappear with their money.

[The_Tick]

What would be so terrible about an open border with unlimited work visas for everyone who applies, followed by green cards for everyone who meets some standards, followed by a clear path to citizenship for anyone who wants to make the US their home? It seems like the proper libertarian/free-markets thing to do.

I don't like the idea of an open border. It isn't as if things feel "safe" now, but that makes it feel less "safe".

I don't have a problem with building a wall on the north side of the country and a south side.

I do agree that we should streamline the visa process, and make citizenship easier for those that choose to do it properly.

I feel that we should punish those that choose to not do it properly.

We have no national identity as it is...

[byu71]

But what you seem to be implying is that you would oppose a free-market approach to immigration because you are afraid that immigrants would be liberal.

Surely you aren't arguing for open borders because you are a free market guy. How do you feel about regulating the financial institutions? Do you believe in rules and regulations, or just let them run amuk.

[mUUser]

I find it interesting that conservatives would oppose open borders in order to protect the solvency of big government social programs. If the newcomers would make these programs insolvent, that seems like a pretty direct route to shrinking the size of government.

[RobinFinderson]

So Tick is afraid that immigrants would make him feel less safe, and Beefy and Indy are afraid that the government couldn't help but start an inflationary death spiral where we print too much money. So, why would be less safe? Why would the treasury sink founder the economy? I don't understand why these things follow.

[The_Tick]

So Tick is afraid that immigrants would make him feel less safe, and Beefy and Indy are afraid that the government couldn't help but start an inflationary death spiral where we print too much money. So, why would be less safe? Why would the treasury sink founder the economy? I don't understand why these things follow.

Let it be said that when I discuss closing the borders I am not just speaking of Mexicans. Notice I lump Canadians in there also.

But Robin...if you have followed any of my posts, ever, you would realize that I am into order and following rules. I am not a free wheeling type of guy.

I can't go on vacation without an itinerary. I require order.

[RobinFinderson]

It might be a shark jump. Every once in a while I think it is useful to revisit old ideas, and make sure the ideas on which the status quo was established are not yesterday's prejudices. So far we have fear of immigrants (vague fear, not sure what Tick means) and fear of inflation. On the other hand, we would have more and better tacos.

[Indy Coug]

What is the financial break-even point for letting an immigrant come in legally, where their tax contributions exceeds the local and federal benefits they receive?

5 years? 10? 20? 50? Never?

[RobinFinderson]

Let it be said that when I discuss closing the borders I am not just speaking of Mexicans. Notice I lump Canadians in there also.

But Robin...if you have followed any of my posts, ever, you would realize that I am into order and following rules. I am not a free wheeling type of guy.

I can't go on vacation without an itinerary. I require order.

Opening the borders wouldn't have to be disorderly. In fact, we could seriously ramp up the punishment for illegal entry, especially if we were to have such a generous immigration policy.