The Sleeping Giant

[SeattleUte]

Link?

lol how long have you lived here? In 1996 paleo liberal Governor Mike Lowry decided not to seek re-election because of a sex harrassment allegation by his deputy press secretary. The Republican nominee against Gary Locke, who would become the first ever Chinese American governor and was not a political star then, was this woman (see esp. part about the 1996 election):

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Craswell"]Ellen Craswell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

This type of thing happens here all the time in various contexts. Every republican I knew (all 20 of them in King County, in fact) voted for Locke.

[frank ryan]

Umm. I would think tacking any added question (Outside of those given to Bishops. SP's etc) would cause the same removal of said calling...



I think they (lds) will stay clear of this on all accounts...

I do know they are concerned about this question in specific.

[frank ryan]

frank ryan and I had a discussion about immigration last week at lunch. My thought is that I don't want to see any amnesty for the illegals, but I would like to see the process for legal immigration be much more simple for these folks. The process is too long because of all the bureaucratic red tape.

I don't agree with the policy in AZ, but I like that the state is actually trying to do something. The value of the illegals is that they perform necessary work for so many businesses - too often for far less than they ought to be paid - but the cost of the illegals for the tax payers is very high. The question as I see it is the risk/benefit worth it?

I think it can be, but I'd rather see these folks be legal. A true overhaul of the process makes much more sense to me than continuing what is happening or rounding them up and sending them back.

And both camps would need to meet somewhere in between and make difficult compromises. This bill doesn't look like a good starting point.

[il Padrino Ute]

And both camps would need to meet somewhere in between and make difficult compromises. This bill doesn't look like a good starting point.

A fair point. There needs to be compromise on both sides.

Still, I think AZ doing something - even if it's the wrong way to go about it - is better than sitting on their hands and doing nothing as is the status quo.

[Guest]

lol how long have you lived here? In 1996 paleo liberal Governor Mike Lowry decided not to seek re-election because of a sex harrassment allegation by his deputy press secretary. The Republican nominee against Gary Locke, who would become the first ever Chinese American governor and was not a political star then, was this woman (see esp. part about the 1996 election):

Ellen Craswell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This type of thing happens here all the time in various contexts. Every republican I knew (all 20 of them in King County, in fact) voted for Locke.

Ok, so you're saying the last Republican governor of Washington State was Locke (D) - who is now Secretary of Commerce for Obama. For Washington State, that makes sense, but in the context of your post it makes none.

[SeattleUte]

Ok, so you're saying the last Republican governor of Washington State was Locke (D) - who is now Secretary of Commerce for Obama. For Washington State, that makes sense, but in the context of your post it makes none.

Is that what I said? Read again.

[Hallelujah]

I think it's a huge blunder for Republicans to pass the Arizona bill against illegal immigration. This will mobilize the hispanic vote against them like never before. I predict that this bill will neutralize the Republican's post-Obamacare advantage in the midterm elections.

EDIT: The governor of AZ is Palin on steroids. She is an absolute idiot. She closed the press conference by saying: "I hope we meet again under better circumstances." What is that supposed to mean?

EDIT 2: I don't mean to be a snob, but her alma mater is Glendale Community College, and she is married to a chiropractor. I'm sure Glendale Community College is a fine institution, but gosh dang it she comes across as an absolute moron. I know some very sharp people who went to UVSC and then went on to Berkeley, etc. I realize that very intelligent people can graduate from small schools. It's not like I went to Harvard, so I don't have a whole lot of room to talk, but she comes across as a big-time idiot.

Absolutely RIGHT. Huge blunder!

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/politics/immigration_bill_poll_042110

LOL. I'm sure it will hurt the GOP in November. Since you don't want to be a slob......what would someone like you do for a living?

[SteelBlue]

Jon Stewart (I think) was saying the other night, "I can't believe cops in Arizona will be walking around saying 'let me see your papers'. Isn't that line required in any movie that portrays Nazis? In fact, I think the Hitler family gets a residual every time it's used."

[frank ryan]

A fair point. There needs to be compromise on both sides.

Still, I think AZ doing something - even if it's the wrong way to go about it - is better than sitting on their hands and doing nothing as is the status quo.

Real, and even semi-pragmatic reform will have to come at the federal level. I don't know if this law encourages it or just further entrenches both sides.
From a libertarian point of view I don't think cops can stop you because of your race, last name etc. and ask for papers. That sounds multiple law suits waiting to happen. This law also supposes that law enforcement has the training and resources to deal with immigration.

[byu71]

[QUOTE=frank ryan;339328].
I think, here in Utah, the growing latino population is going to eventually bring moderation to state politics. /QUOTE]

Have you any examples of what moderation you think will come. I consider myself a moderate republican if the Eagle Forum is considered the conservative republicans in the state. I think the Eagle Forum is pretty much in check here in the State. However, I have an open mind, so again I ask what moderation are you looking for.

[New Mexican Disaster]

frank ryan and I had a discussion about immigration last week at lunch. My thought is that I don't want to see any amnesty for the illegals, but I would like to see the process for legal immigration be much more simple for these folks. The process is too long because of all the bureaucratic red tape.

I don't agree with the policy in AZ, but I like that the state is actually trying to do something. The value of the illegals is that they perform necessary work for so many businesses - too often for far less than they ought to be paid - but the cost of the illegals for the tax payers is very high. The question as I see it is the risk/benefit worth it?

I think it can be, but I'd rather see these folks be legal. A true overhaul of the process makes much more sense to me than continuing what is happening or rounding them up and sending them back.

A very reasonable stance IPU. You see all sides of this issue. I can tell you that I am not in favor of people being "illegal" either, but I think any policy needs to reflect reality and that is going to mean loosening of red tape and creating ways of dealing with the law abiding, hard working folks who have come here during this period where we have had an unrealistic and tedious policy.

Now lets talk about your definition of "socialism,"...

[New Mexican Disaster]

Have you any examples of what moderation you think will come. I consider myself a moderate republican if the Eagle Forum is considered the conservative republicans in the state. I think the Eagle Forum is pretty much in check here in the State. However, I have an open mind, so again I ask what moderation are you looking for.

If I can speak for Frank Ryan for a moment-I think what he is suggesting is that the inclusion of Hispanics into the demographics of Utah will inevitably lead the right wingers to moderate to get votes. This process is well underway in New Mexico, Nevada, Colorado and even Arizona (present legislation excluded).

These states have become genuine battleground states, especially in presidential elections and are trending leftward, but Hispanics are generally more socially conservative than your typical lefty and certainly more inclined toward the Democrats on issues such as immigration, education, and so forth. Utah politics are likely to moderate as the influence of Hispanics and their voting block becomes more influential. But there are no guarantees.

[Uncle Ted]

Absolutely RIGHT. Huge blunder!

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/politics/immigration_bill_poll_042110

LOL. I'm sure it will hurt the GOP in November.

I think once people in Arizona figure out this is a bad law they will quickly change their minds. It may not be by November, however. I don't give them that much credit.

Some possible reasons why it's bad for Arizona:

1. Illegal immigrants actually benefit Arizona's economy. If all unauthorized immigrants were removed from Arizona, the state would lose $26.4 billion in economic activity, $11.7 billion in gross state product, and approximately 140,324 jobs, even accounting for adequate market adjustment time. See this report.
2. Latino-owned businesses may leave the state given the increased police harassment. Over 35,000 businesses in Arizona are Latino-owned and had sales and receipts of $4.3 billion and employed 39,363 people in 2002 according to this census report. In addition, some new business will most likely think twice about locating or doing business in Arizona.
3. It may increase Arizona's legal costs. In addition to lawsuits on behalf of legal immigrants and native-born Latinos who feel they have been unjustly targeted Obama has asked the Department of Justice to possibly take legal action as well.
4. It may likely decrease tourism to Arizona. There is already a lot of talk about this.
5. It may likely slow Arizona's economic recovery.
6. It effectively mandates racial profiling.

Now other states, like Utah, are thinking about passing similar laws and the federal government will most likely now pass some fast-track, piece of s*** immigration reform that just further piles on the debt while doing little or nothing.

[Uncle Ted]

Oh, dammit... Lawmaker wants to bring Arizona immigration law to Utah

[SoCalCoug]

Oh, dammit... Lawmaker wants to bring Arizona immigration law to Utah

An incredibly disingenuous statement by Sandstrom: "Sandstrom, though, says he doesn't see how this bill could lead to racial profiling because it would not be directed at one specific ethnic group." The sad thing is that he's going have a lot of people in Utah say, "Yeah, that's right!"