Toyota is in for serious trouble

[Hallelujah]

According to msn they are halting sales on 8 models. This is like Ford's tire recall in 2001 which sent them down a 8 year crash course.

Funny how Ford was the only car mfr that didn't take a government handout 8 years later and they are stronger now than they were then.

[Hallelujah]

you get a new gas pedal or something.

Hey, liberals don't want just a gas pedal, they want an entire new car.

[TripletDaddy]

While gassing up the minivan on Saturday night, my head was turned by a very sexy looking sedan filling up at the pump next to mine. I didn't recognize it, so I nonchalantly meandered over and took a peek at the rear, making sure not to crane my neck and give away my investigatory intent.

To my surprise, the vehicle was a . . . Ford Taurus? Really? Wow. As strange as it feels to say it, the Ford Taurus is one of the best looking sedans on the road right now.



IMO, the Chevy Malibu and the Ford Taurus are both better looking than the Accord and/or Camry.

I actually agree about the styling. Ford has made great strides.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

While gassing up the minivan on Saturday night, my head was turned by a very sexy looking sedan filling up at the pump next to mine. I didn't recognize it, so I nonchalantly meandered over and took a peek at the rear, making sure not to crane my neck and give away my investigatory intent.

To my surprise, the vehicle was a . . . Ford Taurus? Really? Wow. As strange as it feels to say it, the Ford Taurus is one of the best looking sedans on the road right now.



IMO, the Chevy Malibu and the Ford Taurus are both better looking than the Accord and/or Camry.

At least with Toyota, people don't buy them particularly because they look nice. Toyota has actually developed a well-earned reputation for building bland looking cars.

Honda has developed a reputation as the sportier alternative to Toyota. Honda also blatantly tries to rip off the design of BMWs. Look at the current versions of the Accord and CRV and compare them to the BMW 3/5 series and BMW X3. Of course, Honda doesn't even come close to being as attractive as the BMWs they're copying.

Nissan's designs were like Toyota's at the early part of the 2000s, they've really turned things around. The new Maxima is a nice looking car and the Altima is much better looking than the Accord or Camry.

[old_gregg]

ford has a taurus right now that you can get a twin turbo v6 in. it's supposed to compete with the a4, i'd love to (test) drive one.

[Pheidippides]

At least with Toyota, people don't buy them particularly because they look nice. Toyota has actually developed a well-earned reputation for building bland looking cars.

Honda has developed a reputation as the sportier alternative to Toyota. Honda also blatantly tries to rip off the design of BMWs. Look at the current versions of the Accord and CRV and compare them to the BMW 3/5 series and BMW X3. Of course, Honda doesn't even come close to being as attractive as the BMWs they're copying.

Nissan's designs were like Toyota's at the early part of the 2000s, they've really turned things around. The new Maxima is a nice looking car and the Altima is much better looking than the Accord or Camry.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people get BMWs and MBs. I know that people here do it. I have driven several models of both brands, and ridden in just about everything (including the M3 and the C63 AMG). By this, I mean I literally do not understand - I'm not trying to be critical.

With all of that said, I would absolutely get a GT-R if I had the moola (which I don't).

[falafel]

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people get BMWs and MBs. I know that people here do it. I have driven several models of both brands, and ridden in just about everything (including the M3 and the C63 AMG). By this, I mean I literally do not understand - I'm not trying to be critical.

With all of that said, I would absolutely get a GT-R if I had the moola (which I don't).

What is it you don't understand? Are you suggesting that there are comparable (or even superior) cars there for less money?

[Pheidippides]

What is it you don't understand? Are you suggesting that there are comparable (or even superior) cars there for less money?

I don't understand spending the extra money for the features and increased repair/maintenance bills. I can find something with just as great longevity for much less money, if I'm willing to give up some features.

(I'm not saying they are crappy cars - far from it. I'm saying that they are much more expensive to repair and require more maintenance.)

I thought I'd be a luxury car guy. I drive a used Acura TL right now, which is a very low end luxury car (essentially a Honda Accord with leather and a nice stereo system). After driving one for a while (and, as I said before, the upper-end brethren), I don't get it. Maybe luxury cars are for people who can't drive motorcycles - I don't know. But I'd rather save my coin for something else. My next car will be a truck - one that I can take off-road and beat around a bit.

[falafel]

I don't understand spending the extra money for the features and increased repair/maintenance bills. I can find something with just as great longevity for much less money, if I'm willing to give up some features.

I don't drive a luxury car (unless this is really Korea), but I can understand buying a BMW for the performance. I don't really care about most of the features in a luxury car, but you usually can't get the performance without paying for all the features.

And as far as maintenance goes, I hope that I would be able to follow the kccougar method.

[TripletDaddy]

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people get BMWs and MBs. I know that people here do it. I have driven several models of both brands, and ridden in just about everything (including the M3 and the C63 AMG). By this, I mean I literally do not understand - I'm not trying to be critical.

With all of that said, I would absolutely get a GT-R if I had the moola (which I don't).

They are fun to drive, they are generally considered cool cars, etc. In other words, personal preference. No amount of explaining will convince someone that isn't inclined to care much either way. Cars are much like any other hobby. You drop coin on things that interest you most...guns, motorcycles, cars, electronics, etc.

[Pheidippides]

They are fun to drive, they are generally considered cool cars, etc. In other words, personal preference. No amount of explaining will convince someone that isn't inclined to care much either way. Cars are much like any other hobby. You drop coin on things that interest you most...guns, motorcycles, cars, electronics, etc.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say - I don't get it, but recognize personal preference and what-not. Although it seems there's way too much of a status premium that goes along with high-end cars in a way that is foreign to other spheres. Or at least the premium is more readily acknowledged, and that's my hang-up. I've never been convinced that a significant premium based on brand name along is not inherently built into the cost of the car alone, used or new. And so I'll find different Antarean parakeet glands to display.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

They are fun to drive, they are generally considered cool cars, etc. In other words, personal preference. No amount of explaining will convince someone that isn't inclined to care much either way. Cars are much like any other hobby. You drop coin on things that interest you most...guns, motorcycles, cars, electronics, etc.

I think this answers most of the question, but I also think the cost differential in acquiring a used BMW vs. a used Lexus or Acura makes up for much of maintenance and repairs costs in the future. The depreciation on German cars is pretty steep the first few years. And there are a number of German cars that are quite reliable; in particular, look at the Mercedes E-Class from a few years ago as well as the BMW 3 series. From my discussions with BMW and Mercedes owners, these more reliable models rarely have catastrophic repairs (tranny, cracked engine block, etc), it's usually electronic-related issues. Of course, that goes with the territory. You're buying a car that is overengineered and these things will go wrong.

My other point is related to DDD's point. Japanese makes still cannot generally match the Germans in exterior looks and interior quality. You pay more for it, but you also get more. Some people just like this and are willing to spend the money on it.

[Pheidippides]

I think this answers most of the question, but I also think the cost differential in acquiring a used BMW vs. a used Lexus or Acura makes up for much of maintenance and repairs costs in the future. The depreciation on German cars is pretty steep the first few years. And there are a number of German cars that are quite reliable; in particular, look at the Mercedes E-Class from a few years ago as well as the BMW 3 series. From my discussions with BMW and Mercedes owners, these more reliable models rarely have catastrophic repairs (tranny, cracked engine block, etc), it's usually electronic-related issues. Of course, that goes with the territory. You're buying a car that is overengineered and these things will go wrong.

My other point is related to DDD's point. Japanese makes still cannot generally match the Germans in exterior looks and interior quality. You pay more for it, but you also get more. Some people just like this and are willing to spend the money on it.

Exterior looks are entirely subjective, so I completely disregard that facet unless we get a retread of the Pontiac Aztek.

I have regretted getting my Acura for the past 4 years, not because it's been a bad car or I don't like it, but because it's not as practical as a truck for my lifestyle.

[FN Phat]

Exterior looks are entirely subjective, so I completely disregard that facet unless we get a retread of the Pontiac Aztek.

I have regretted getting my Acura for the past 4 years, not because it's been a bad car or I don't like it, but because it's not as practical as a truck for my lifestyle.

The Acura TL is one of my favorite cars on the road.

[TripletDaddy]

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say - I don't get it, but recognize personal preference and what-not. Although it seems there's way too much of a status premium that goes along with high-end cars in a way that is foreign to other spheres. Or at least the premium is more readily acknowledged, and that's my hang-up. I've never been convinced that a significant premium based on brand name along is not inherently built into the cost of the car alone, used or new. And so I'll find different Antarean parakeet glands to display.

I will say this much.....as much as some may hate it.....clients take note of what their consultants (tax, law, biz) drive. When you take a CFO out to dinner and you pick them up in a KIA, some clients don't want to see that because it doesn't fit the image of what they think someone from a certain firm should be driving. It is definitely image-related, but clients pay for a certain image.

If you were meeting with a private financial advisor that was driving a Honda, you would likely be less impressed than someone that rolled up in a Benzo.

The ironic thing about that phenom is that clients should ask themselves...."who is ultimately paying the cost of that fancy car?" The answer is the client, of course.

There is a fine line to walk. In these times, nobody wants to see their consultants living a life of excess while charging exorbitant fees. I would imagine that most large firms have cut down on fees to be competitive with middle market, and as such, you will likely see fewer and fewer top brass splurging on crazy cars. It just isn't the right time. Smaller, middle market clients are less impressed with fancy cars and more worried by them. They understand more that it is their dollar that is making the car payment.

It is all a silly game, but it is a business reality in certain circles.