Legalizing Marijuana

[Solon]

I read the federal stats a few years ago and it was < 3% of the national prison population. It's probably less now. Of course it's not zero, but it's not significant.

If you're looking to build an economy and a public income base on "sin" taxes, or even fill large gaps with it, we're in big trouble.

You guys aren't really even arguing. 8BR is talking sense. Legalizing weed is not the panacaea the politicians say it is. Sure it might help raise some revenue, but overall they'd be much better off making smarter decisions with the public funds.

[woot]

I don't agree with legalizing it. And I do use they above link as part of the reason why.

These kids had no record whatsoever. They got stoned and killed 2 people.

I know stuff happens all the time, I just don't like it when folks say:

1. It is an innocent drug.
2. It doesn't hurt anyone.
3. It isn't addicting.

I am fat. I am addicted to food and Diet Dr. Pepper. I have yet to kill for either of them though.

1. Innocent seems to be a meaningless word in this context, but weed is not known for inducing violence. Quite the opposite, in fact.
2. It is less harmful than alcohol, tobacco, food, cars, etc.
3. This is simply a fact. It is not addictive. Perhaps an argument could be made that it is "addictive" according the froofy definitions by which sex, food, and internet forums are also addictive, but I doubt you think any of those things should be illegal, and I would argue that it is significantly less addictive than any of those things anyway.

[woot]

You guys aren't really even arguing. 8BR is talking sense. Legalizing weed is not the panacaea the politicians say it is. Sure it might help raise some revenue, but overall they'd be much better off making smarter decisions with the public funds.

Is he really talking sense? All I see is "No, it won't work. It's silly to think it will help with the budget." while not providing any reason why he thinks so. Regarding the prison system, he only refers to vague statistical reports that prove he's at least exaggerating when he says it won't make a difference. I wouldn't mind seeing a citation on that one.

[The_Tick]

The hurdles to legalize it are huge.

We were talking about this at work this morning and here are the two major sticking points that come to my mind:

1. DWI/DUI - How are law enforcement going to be able to tell if someone is DUI? What type of test is going to be acceptable? Blood/Hair? It sticks around too long in the blood and even longer in the hair. Are they going to be able to issue a field test? What laws are going to be put into effect?

2. Work - I would say 75% of jobs out there have drug screens. I know the field that I work in we have constant random drug tests. I have been randomed 3 times in 1 month. If I fail a random I am fired. I can contest the test, pay out of my own pocket and have a retest done within 72 hours. If I pass that test, it is the companies decision if they bring me back or not.

But if it is legal...where does a company go with a drug test? Because alcohol is legal. You can have a beer or two at night and still come into work. We work with DOT transfer lines, so we get random breathalyzer tests also. Fail and you are gone. With a legal MJ you are going to have major issues.

And I can tell you...in the oil field I would suspect that >50% would be users if legalized.

I would love to hear some of the ideas on how to establish some guidelines.

I do chuckle when the kids at church talk about legalizing MJ. Still against the WoW though.

[FN Phat]

The hurdles to legalize it are huge.

We were talking about this at work this morning and here are the two major sticking points that come to my mind:

1. DWI/DUI - How are law enforcement going to be able to tell if someone is DUI? What type of test is going to be acceptable? Blood/Hair? It sticks around too long in the blood and even longer in the hair. Are they going to be able to issue a field test? What laws are going to be put into effect?

2. Work - I would say 75% of jobs out there have drug screens. I know the field that I work in we have constant random drug tests. I have been randomed 3 times in 1 month. If I fail a random I am fired. I can contest the test, pay out of my own pocket and have a retest done within 72 hours. If I pass that test, it is the companies decision if they bring me back or not.

But if it is legal...where does a company go with a drug test? Because alcohol is legal. You can have a beer or two at night and still come into work. We work with DOT transfer lines, so we get random breathalyzer tests also. Fail and you are gone. With a legal MJ you are going to have major issues.

And I can tell you...in the oil field I would suspect that >50% would be users if legalized.

I would love to hear some of the ideas on how to establish some guidelines.

I do chuckle when the kids at church talk about legalizing MJ. Still against the WoW though.

I am subjected to random breathalyzers and random drug test at work as well (as recent as yesterday!). I have seen the measures the current users take to avoid and/or beat the test. I imagine that these measures would only increase with the ammount of users.

Legalizing marijuana wouldn't stop these procedures at your place of employement. You would have to make a conscience decision on where your priorities are. Entertainment or gainfully employed.

[woot]

The hurdles to legalize it are huge.

We were talking about this at work this morning and here are the two major sticking points that come to my mind:

1. DWI/DUI - How are law enforcement going to be able to tell if someone is DUI? What type of test is going to be acceptable? Blood/Hair? It sticks around too long in the blood and even longer in the hair. Are they going to be able to issue a field test? What laws are going to be put into effect?

2. Work - I would say 75% of jobs out there have drug screens. I know the field that I work in we have constant random drug tests. I have been randomed 3 times in 1 month. If I fail a random I am fired. I can contest the test, pay out of my own pocket and have a retest done within 72 hours. If I pass that test, it is the companies decision if they bring me back or not.

But if it is legal...where does a company go with a drug test? Because alcohol is legal. You can have a beer or two at night and still come into work. We work with DOT transfer lines, so we get random breathalyzer tests also. Fail and you are gone. With a legal MJ you are going to have major issues.

And I can tell you...in the oil field I would suspect that >50% would be users if legalized.

I would love to hear some of the ideas on how to establish some guidelines.

I do chuckle when the kids at church talk about legalizing MJ. Still against the WoW though.

These are two potentially legitimate issues. The first is already a problem; I saw a report where a guy was arrested for DUI after testing positive for MJ because he had smoked sometime in the last month. On the other hand, driving under the influence of MJ is not nearly as dangerous as DUI of alcohol. There are various reasons for this, but not the least of which is that THC doesn't get into your inner ear fluid, meaning that it doesn't affect one's balance. One thing I read said that THC isn't dangerous at all, although I don't know if I agree with that.

I imagine that businesses would be allowed to continue with random drug tests and fire anyone who tested positive even if it were legal to smoke up, but I'm not sure on that one. For the vast majority of companies I imagine it would come down to maintaining job performance while avoiding detection, just like it is now.

[RobinFinderson]

The hurdles to legalize it are huge.

We were talking about this at work this morning and here are the two major sticking points that come to my mind:

1. DWI/DUI - How are law enforcement going to be able to tell if someone is DUI? What type of test is going to be acceptable? Blood/Hair? It sticks around too long in the blood and even longer in the hair. Are they going to be able to issue a field test? What laws are going to be put into effect?

2. Work - I would say 75% of jobs out there have drug screens. I know the field that I work in we have constant random drug tests. I have been randomed 3 times in 1 month. If I fail a random I am fired. I can contest the test, pay out of my own pocket and have a retest done within 72 hours. If I pass that test, it is the companies decision if they bring me back or not.

But if it is legal...where does a company go with a drug test? Because alcohol is legal. You can have a beer or two at night and still come into work. We work with DOT transfer lines, so we get random breathalyzer tests also. Fail and you are gone. With a legal MJ you are going to have major issues.

And I can tell you...in the oil field I would suspect that >50% would be users if legalized.

I would love to hear some of the ideas on how to establish some guidelines.

I do chuckle when the kids at church talk about legalizing MJ. Still against the WoW though.

Again and again, MJ is ALREADY legal in CA, so we have answers to your questions.

1. Officers may administer a simple field sobriety test. Walk a straight line and demonstrate the ability to communicate and cooperate with the officer. This is exactly the way it is done with abusers of prescription medicines, who may also be cited for DUI. No blood, urine or hair necessary.

2. The Supreme Court has ruled that employers may legally dismiss employees for failing a drug test, even if the drug (MJ) can be prescribed by a doctor. In CA you can still get canned for smoking pot, however I would guess (I have no idea about the hard stats here) that legalization would lead to an increase in tolerance from sympathetic employers who recognize that pot may indeed help alleviate some people's symptoms. They could have those employees with Dr's recs on file, so that showing positive for weed wouldn't lose one his/her job. No special national guidelines beyond this are needed.

[scottie]

After 53 votes, 83% are in favor of legalization.

[Medfordcoug]

The hurdles to legalize it are huge.

We were talking about this at work this morning and here are the two major sticking points that come to my mind:

1. DWI/DUI - How are law enforcement going to be able to tell if someone is DUI? What type of test is going to be acceptable? Blood/Hair? It sticks around too long in the blood and even longer in the hair. Are they going to be able to issue a field test? What laws are going to be put into effect?

2. Work - I would say 75% of jobs out there have drug screens. I know the field that I work in we have constant random drug tests. I have been randomed 3 times in 1 month. If I fail a random I am fired. I can contest the test, pay out of my own pocket and have a retest done within 72 hours. If I pass that test, it is the companies decision if they bring me back or not.

But if it is legal...where does a company go with a drug test? Because alcohol is legal. You can have a beer or two at night and still come into work. We work with DOT transfer lines, so we get random breathalyzer tests also. Fail and you are gone. With a legal MJ you are going to have major issues.

And I can tell you...in the oil field I would suspect that >50% would be users if legalized.

I would love to hear some of the ideas on how to establish some guidelines.

I do chuckle when the kids at church talk about legalizing MJ. Still against the WoW though.

You can still test for it at work as long it is part of the drug and alcohol policy. We use the ODOT standards and have never had an issue with terminating someone for violating the policy even for legal substances like alcohol.

For me, I would much rather be around someone who is high than a drunk. I've known too many mean drunks. The person who smokes pot generally gets the munchies and then goes to sleep in the corner.

[Solon]

Is he really talking sense? All I see is "No, it won't work. It's silly to think it will help with the budget." while not providing any reason why he thinks so. Regarding the prison system, he only refers to vague statistical reports that prove he's at least exaggerating when he says it won't make a difference. I wouldn't mind seeing a citation on that one.

I just think you guys are exaggerating the other's point-of-view (although I've started just skimming). If I boil you down to the basic elements, I'm reading that legalizing and taxing weed will help ease judicial system and raise some revenues, but obviously it wont solve all of a state's or the federal problems.

That's all. Maybe I'm just a middle ground kind of guy, but it would obviously have some impact, but I doubt it would have the cure-all impact politicians could claim.

BTW, you're talking sense too, woot.

[woot]

I just think you guys are exaggerating the other's point-of-view (although I've started just skimming). If I boil you down to the basic elements, I'm reading that legalizing and taxing weed will help ease judicial system and raise some revenues, but obviously it wont solve all of a state's or the federal problems.

That's all. Maybe I'm just a middle ground kind of guy, but it would obviously have some impact, but I doubt it would have the cure-all impact politicians could claim.

BTW, you're talking sense too, woot.

Yeah that's basically my point of view. It isn't a way of saving the world or anything in it, but there are a great number of reasons for it to be legal, there are very few reasons for it to be illegal, and I therefore think it should be legalized. That's about it.

[Non Sequitur]

Yeah that's basically my point of view. It isn't a way of saving the world or anything in it, but there are a great number of reasons for it to be legal, there are very few reasons for it to be illegal, and I therefore think it should be legalized. That's about it.

There are no good reasons for it to be illegal. If you're going to make a health argument, then start by by outlawing mayonaise. If you're saying it makes people violent -- which is utter rubbish -- then outlaw handguns first; those cause much more violence. Hell outlaw marriage. No more spousal abuse.

People have an idea that if we legalize pot, we'll have a generation of people not working, staying home, watching Scooby Doo. People buy into the false sterotype. The two people I know best that smoke pot on a regular basis are two of the most productive people i know.They both work 12 hours on a regular basis and both have very high profile jobs in a high profile company. Two of the most motivated people I know. They smoke because their jobs are extremely stressful and they like having something to take the edge off when they're done with work. It's harmless and its criminilzation is arbitrary at best. I could name a dozen things people do legally on a daily basis that are levels more dangerous and damaging to society than marijuana.

[woot]

There are no good reasons for it to be illegal. If you're going to make a health argument, then start by by outlawing mayonaise. If you're saying it makes people violent -- which is utter rubbish -- then outlaw handguns first; those cause much more violence. Hell outlaw marriage. No more spousal abuse.

People have an idea that if we legalize pot, we'll have a generation of people not working, staying home, watching Scooby Doo. People buy into the false sterotype. The two people I know best that smoke pot on a regular basis are two of the most productive people i know.They both work 12 hours on a regular basis and both have very high profile jobs in a high profile company. Two of the most motivated people I know. They smoke because their jobs are extremely stressful and they like having something to take the edge off when they're done with work. It's harmless and its criminilzation is arbitrary at best. I could name a dozen things people do legally on a daily basis that are levels more dangerous and damaging to society than marijuana.

As I've said previously, Tylenol is a much more dangerous drug than marijuana. To your point, though, the MJ use statistics for Amsterdam are significantly lower than they are in the US. Making something illegal increases the demand for that product. Unless the government can also decrease the supply of that product (it's far cheaper and more prevalent now than it was before the ridiculous "war on drugs" started), they are actually encouraging its use.

If any of the republicans on here want a great example to use during your constant whittering about the uselessness of government, the drug war is exhibit A.

[SteelBlue]

Medicinal pot is legal here. Since the Obama admin announced that they will not be intervening with federal enforcement we have had a tremendous boom in the number of clinics in town. I believe we have over 70 distributors and that number is rising weekly. People with a scrip are also allowed to grow a medicinal amount for themselves and interestingly this is where there has been an uptick in crime that can be directly attributed to the legal grow law. Theives are obtaining the addresses of people with legal pot gardens and stealing the pot.

I personally do not have an issue with medical marijuana but it has been funny to see who has the scrips and why they have them. Shockingly we have a large number of men in their 20's and 30's with back pain. Being a young man and having severe back pain is a way of life around here with unemployment at 18%. It pays the bills.

[Flystripper]

You guys aren't really even arguing. 8BR is talking sense. Legalizing weed is not the panacaea the politicians say it is. Sure it might help raise some revenue, but overall they'd be much better off making smarter decisions with the public funds.

well yeah...clearly they have to cut spending in CA. Weed will not fund the CA deficit but it certainly wouldn't hurt.