Marathon Training Thread

[Eddie]

My calf is feeling good enough that I'm back to regular running again - went my longest distance of 12 miles on Saturday - and pretty happy about it. I decided to cut way back on the ambitious training schedule I had initially been following (5 days a week) and go to only running 3 times a week. I may add in a very short 4th day over time depending on how things go.

So for right now I have a short run on Tuesday, moderate run Thursday, and long run Friday.

I'm thinking that for the short run I'll either do intervals or today I ran at a pace about a minute faster per mile than race pace.

For Thursday's runs I think I'll either do race pace or hills.

And then for Saturday the long run will be at a pace about a minute slower per mile than race pace.

For those of you with more experience than I, does this plan sound reasonable?

[bluegoose]

I've been largely silent this week in this thread, hoping that if I don't talk about the intense anterior shin pain that I had during Monday's run, that it will go away without incident.

4 weeks until Salt Lake.

[Sea Chicken]

I have a question for you all about gels. I had a really good long run on Saturday (20 miles @ 7:49) and everything went well except for a grinding pain in my gut around miles 11-14. I wonder if it has to do with the caffeine in the gels I was taking.
I took gels every five miles because that's my plan for the marathon. They were Powerbar gels with caffeine. I felt the same thing when I took some sportbeans with caffeine when I ran Top of Utah last fall. I would think that my gut is really, really used to having caffeine in it, but I'm starting to wonder if that's what's bugging me. Anyone else experience anything like that?

[Eddie]

I have a question for you all about gels. I had a really good long run on Saturday (20 miles @ 7:49) and everything went well except for a grinding pain in my gut around miles 11-14. I wonder if it has to do with the caffeine in the gels I was taking.
I took gels every five miles because that's my plan for the marathon. They were Powerbar gels with caffeine. I felt the same thing when I took some sportbeans with caffeine when I ran Top of Utah last fall. I would think that my gut is really, really used to having caffeine in it, but I'm starting to wonder if that's what's bugging me. Anyone else experience anything like that?

Yes - kind of - but I don't think it was the gels.

During Ogden last year I was worried about hydration. So I took at least one and usually 2 drinks at each station along the route. Add into that the gels I took every 45 minutes or so, the oranges when they were available, etc., and I think I was just water logged and sloshing by the end of the race. By about mile 17-18 I felt like I needed to puke, but was dumb enough that I just kept drinking.

I only carried water during 1 training run last year - and carried nothing when I went 15 and 16 miles.

This year I've done 10, 12, and 13 mile runs without a drink stop.

I do think I need to start trying out gels and drink so that I don't run into what you are experiencing - and what I experienced last year.

I usually run early enough in the morning that it isn't warm - which keeps me from getting very thirsty and needing much - but it doesn't help with the practice of running while hydrating.

[bluegoose]

I have a question for you all about gels. I had a really good long run on Saturday (20 miles @ 7:49) and everything went well except for a grinding pain in my gut around miles 11-14. I wonder if it has to do with the caffeine in the gels I was taking.
I took gels every five miles because that's my plan for the marathon. They were Powerbar gels with caffeine. I felt the same thing when I took some sportbeans with caffeine when I ran Top of Utah last fall. I would think that my gut is really, really used to having caffeine in it, but I'm starting to wonder if that's what's bugging me. Anyone else experience anything like that?

Man, you've gotten fast this year. Nice work.

I've not noticed any difference in my gut when I use caffeine versus not, but I do have a bit of an iron gut when it comes to eating different foods while running or riding. The only that I can't do is any milk products before a hard workout. That is the one thing that I've found that will make me feel like you've described during a workout.

[bluegoose]

I made it out for my last long run before Salt Lake. 19 miles. After having some shin pain during Mondays workout, i took the rest of the week off running until Saturday, not wanting it to flare up into something really bad. The shins felt fairly well, despite my constant concern that i was going to get stuck having to walk back 9 miles to my car.

I also took it really slow this weekend, about a minute per mile slower pace than I usually do. I didn't really notice any difference in the way that i felt when I finished, and may be a little more sore today than I have been in the past after a long run. I would guess a lot of that is simply pounding the pavement for 20 minutes longer than I have this year.

So now I begin a 4 week taper to the marathon. It is a longer taper than I would like, but life is getting in the way of doing it right.

[ERCougar]

I have a question for you all about gels. I had a really good long run on Saturday (20 miles @ 7:49) and everything went well except for a grinding pain in my gut around miles 11-14. I wonder if it has to do with the caffeine in the gels I was taking.
I took gels every five miles because that's my plan for the marathon. They were Powerbar gels with caffeine. I felt the same thing when I took some sportbeans with caffeine when I ran Top of Utah last fall. I would think that my gut is really, really used to having caffeine in it, but I'm starting to wonder if that's what's bugging me. Anyone else experience anything like that?

There are lots of people who have GI issues with gels. Make sure you're drinking plenty of water with the gel, but even so, some people just can't tolerate them. It might be worth trying another brand, but you really don't NEED them anyway, particularly if you have Gatorade at aid stations (and your stomach handles those). I use them a lot more sparingly than I used to, and mostly just alternate Gatorade and water at aid stations. I'll throw one in for the sugar/caffeine rush once in a while.

Caffeine can cause gastritis, but really, I don't think it's the caffeine. It's the combo of running and putting straight sugar on your gut that's rough.

[Pheidippides]

There are lots of people who have GI issues with gels. Make sure you're drinking plenty of water with the gel, but even so, some people just can't tolerate them. It might be worth trying another brand, but you really don't NEED them anyway, particularly if you have Gatorade at aid stations (and your stomach handles those). I use them a lot more sparingly than I used to, and mostly just alternate Gatorade and water at aid stations. I'll throw one in for the sugar/caffeine rush once in a while.

Caffeine can cause gastritis, but really, I don't think it's the caffeine. It's the combo of running and putting straight sugar on your gut that's rough.

From what I've read, endurance running can cause havoc in the gut simply because resources are being allocated elsewhere.

I have experienced the same issue Sea Chicken has (one of the reasons I always take gels on runs longer than 10 miles). A couple of times I had to go scampering off into the forest.

[ERCougar]

From what I've read, endurance running can cause havoc in the gut simply because resources are being allocated elsewhere.

I have experienced the same issue Sea Chicken has (one of the reasons I always take gels on runs longer than 10 miles). A couple of times I had to go scampering off into the forest.

Yup. That's what I meant with my last paragraph. I do think the gels can make it worse, but long running alone causes GI issues.

[Eddie]

When I was reading the Hal Higdon book in preparation my first time around, I remember thinking it was strange that he talked about having his wife waiting for him around the half way mark with a can of coke when he runs a marathon.

It just seemed like a startling contrast to the idea of nutrition and running and the extremes that some folks go to in order to make sure that they are taking in the right stuff.

It also made me think that maybe we overdo the gels and athletics specific stuff just a little, and that maybe it is harder (particularly for the non-elite's among us) than we think to really mess up our intake during the race. I mean, you need some ongoing calories and you need some hydration. But maybe the source isn't all that important. So go with something you and your gut both like.

I'm starting to consider running with one of those hydration belts and filling one of the bottles with a can of Mountain Dew...just as a boost if/when I start feeling run down. That, or a celebration of the 20 mile mark...

[bluegoose]

After reading Seachicken's latest times and checking out his blog, my new goal for SLC is 3:37:43. That would put my PR a second ahead of Chicken, before he absolutely crushes it a month later in Ogden.

[Sea Chicken]

Is two weeks before the race too close to do my last long run? I've been looking at my calendar and I'm running out of Saturdays. What do you guys think?

[bluegoose]

Is two weeks before the race too close to do my last long run? I've been looking at my calendar and I'm running out of Saturdays. What do you guys think?

For me it would be. I think that I would need the whole 3 weeks to feel fresh for race day. But you run a lot more than me, so you probably recover a lot faster than I do.

I think I mentioned my sister in law who did Billings 2 weeks before St george. She PRed in StG on 13 days rest.

[Pheidippides]

For me it would be. I think that I would need the whole 3 weeks to feel fresh for race day. But you run a lot more than me, so you probably recover a lot faster than I do.

I think I mentioned my sister in law who did Billings 2 weeks before St george. She PRed in StG on 13 days rest.

I'm with you - 3 weeks is what I need, and no way I can do two in two weeks (unless I run the first really slow).

But the body does weird things sometimes. Last night I pulled out a 9 miler at 8:00/per - and that was after forcing myself to walk twice to slow it down. One of the miles was sub 7. Final mile was at 10k pace. I would have broken any and all PRs last night (except the full marathon, as I wasn't appropriately fueled) had I tried, with ease. I felt like running another 9.

And there was no reason for it. I haven't had a rest day since last Thursday. Had a tough 17 miles on Saturday. Did a strenuous swimming/cycling workout that morning. Etc. It was just my night.

[Coach McGuirk]

Btw, my fellow Diz half runners, 5 years ago, the race didn't sell out. 4 years ago, the race sold out in August, 3 years ago it sold out in July, 2 Years ago it sold out in June, Last year it sold out end of may. This year, it sold out March 11th.