General Authority salaries

[Indy Coug]

what do you mean by "travel reimbursement?"

The Apostle has to fly to Peru for a stake conference. Apostle books a flight to Peru, pays on his credit card, and then submits his expenses to the Church for a reimbursement? Why would that be income? Maybe I am not understanding.

IMO, it's not income, but I'm wondering here if someone is considering that to be income when they are conjuring up the $600K figure.

[TripletDaddy]

Anyone here close enough to one of the 70s to ask him if he's paid $120K per? (Above and beyond travel and living expenses).

again, reimbursements for costs are not imputed into taxable income. "stipends" would be imputed to the extent that they exceed actual costs. I don't understand this carve out for "travel and living" expenses. That could actually be the lion's share of their income. What if an Apostle is given a stipend of $400K "living expenses" a year? Why would we look "above and beyond" such a gigantic number?

[ERCougar]

I have no issue with that. I do have issue with the tune of 600K. I'd even have issue to the tune of $150K. That is a lot of scratch in Utah, where the average salary isn't even half of that. Apostles of the Lord should not be living on a stipend that is almost 3 times the average wage of the commoners. It should, at best, reflect what the masses are making.

600K is ridiculous but 150K isn't excessive. It's a full-time, demanding job that requires real sacrifice from wives and kids, who may or may not be totally on board with the new gig, particularly given that most of these guys leave well-paying jobs elsewhere. 150K isn't high for your average executive, which is essentially what these guys are.

[kccougar]

what do you mean by "travel reimbursement?"

The Apostle has to fly to Peru for a stake conference. Apostle books a flight to Peru, pays on his credit card, and then submits his expenses to the Church for a reimbursement? Why would that be income? Maybe I am not understanding.

Because the "source" seems to be lumping in these church-payed credit cards as compensation.

[Indy Coug]

An area authority I know got $0 beyond expense reimbursement and did not get healthcare benefits.

[TripletDaddy]

IMO, it's not income, but I'm wondering here if someone is considering that to be income when they are conjuring up the $600K figure.

ok, so we are on the same page. When I hear "$600K" I am thinking take home, after reimbursement for actual expenses. But I am also weary of creative cost accounting for stipends. Stipends are often not included as part of exec compensation base but must be considered when calculating your AGI.

more gamesmanship on my part, though. I've already admitted that this is all conjecture until we have some inside scoopage.

[Fiyero]

As of three years ago, each member of the Q12 was given a Toyota Avalon for their local travel.

What much of it boils down to is the value of their travel expenses; however keep in mind that they are often chauffered by local leaders and stay with stake presidents. Since what they do is a full time job it makes sense that they would need a stipend to pay property taxes, insurance premiums and the like, but it's the traveling that really pushes up the numbers.

[TripletDaddy]

Because the "source" seems to be lumping in these church-payed credit cards as compensation.

well, in that case I would agree that the figure is nonsense. You can't impute into income actuals for expense reimbursement. that is insane and is not supported by the IRC.

No boss would say, "well, we aren't giving you a raise this year because you made a killing off expense reimbursements for all those flights we forced you to take."

[scottie]

A few years ago on CB we were having this same discussion, and someone send me a boardmail that read, "I do know that in the late 80's, a member of the 70 made around 80k."

[RobinFinderson]

600K is ridiculous but 150K isn't excessive. It's a full-time, demanding job that requires real sacrifice from wives and kids, who may or may not be totally on board with the new gig, particularly given that most of these guys leave well-paying jobs elsewhere. 150K isn't high for your average executive, which is essentially what these guys are.

A stake president does the job of an 'average executive.' However these guys get compensated, it should represent a serious sacrifice in the tradition of the calling that Christ defined. Honestly, I think these guys should get paid zero dollars. The church should provide them a home, healthy food, tailoring, and all of the basics for doing their job, but they should receive zero discretionary dollars from the church. If stake presidents work for free, with all of the hours that job requires them to sacrifice, then GA's should also work for free.

[ERCougar]

As of three years ago, each member of the Q12 was given a Toyota Avalon for their local travel.

What much of it boils down to is the value of their travel expenses; however keep in mind that they are often chauffered by local leaders and stay with stake presidents. Since what they do is a full time job it makes sense that they would need a stipend to pay property taxes, insurance premiums and the like, but it's the traveling that really pushes up the numbers.

Doesn't that beg the question--do they really need to travel that much? I guess I can understand in countries with lower standards of living, where technologic resources aren't available and the church is young, but the Ventura CA ward doesn't need an area authority to every stake conference.

[YOhio]

I have a buddy whose grandpa is a Q70. The only perk his family ever got, that I know of, were GC tickets and the use of a church van for an annual family vacation.

As an aside, I would have recommended that if the church is going to set up a shell company to hide cash and assets, they not use the name of the church magazine in the new company name.

[falafel]

Anyone here close enough to one of the 70s to ask him if he's paid $120K per? (Above and beyond travel and living expenses).

In the 1990s my best friend's dad was a seventy, but only 2nd quorum. Before that, he was a VP of Pete Marwick (I think that's the PM of KPMG, right?). He made about $300k a year at that job and took a substantial pay cut when he moved to Utah and became a GA. We lived in a neighborhood that probably averaged between $80k and $100k. I remember my friend not being able to do a lot of the things we did b/c his family didn't have the money. They did, however, have a nice boat.

[Indy Coug]

If stake presidents work for free, with all of the hours that job requires them to sacrifice, then GA's should also work for free.

You probably already know this, but there's a fundamental difference between the two.

[scottie]

Because the "source" seems to be lumping in these church-payed credit cards as compensation.

The "source" says the charge cards are "In addition" to.