Green tea

[Pheidippides]

You're the only one I've ever met, Mormon or non-Mormon, who is confused by this distinction. Lots of people don't get why we (some of us) drink caffeinated drinks, but everyone understands why tea is different from herbal tea.

Must be a remnant of early-morning seminary.

In language DDD can understand, the tea/herbal tea debate (as with tithes on gambling winnings) is part of the body of Mormon common law.

Actually, the latter is a subject of a church letter to bishops, I believe, even though it's not in the HOI. But I think it's also a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Cuz money is money.

[YOhio]

I need a good campaign manager.

I'll be more than happy to volunteer, as long as you campaign on getting the church out of the underwear business.

[SoCalCoug]

Far be it for me to take the mullah side, but statman's correct. There is only one true tea plant, and all the various iterations of tea depend on how it is processed. White tea, yellow tea, green tea, Oolong tea, and black tea are all the same thing, just processed differently.

I base this testimony on wikipedia:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...g_chart_II.svg


Herbal "tea" is distinguished because it is not tea, just as chocolate "liquor" isn't really liquor - it's just a name that's been given to it.

[TripletDaddy]

You're the only one I've ever met, Mormon or non-Mormon, who is confused by this distinction. Lots of people don't get why we (some of us) drink caffeinated drinks, but everyone understands why tea is different from herbal tea.

Must be a remnant of early-morning seminary.

First, this may just mean that you haven't met many people. I know lots of folks that don't drink any sort of tea, herbal or otherwise.

Second, I am not saying that I don't understand the differences. I am saying there is no doctrinal basis to justify one at the expense of the other. There is zero mention of herbal tea vs tea plant as it pertains to the WoW. None. Any discussion of such is 100% conjecture on your part, as much as you wish to appeal to authority in your post.

Fortunately, my mind is stronger than yours and I am also a way better troll, so I did not fall for your trap.

[TripletDaddy]

In language DDD can understand, the tea/herbal tea debate (as with tithes on gambling winnings) is part of the body of Mormon common law.

Actually, the latter is a subject of a church letter to bishops, I believe, even though it's not in the HOI. But I think it's also a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Cuz money is money.

I can get behind the "common law" explanation, only because it is a tacit acknowledgment that such practice isn't really scriptural or revelatory, but simple common practice, adopted as orthodoxy over time.

But even with the common law assertion, the very fact that any "debate" exists seems to imply that the acceptance of herbal v non-herbal, caffeine v no caffeine, gross v net.....none of them are as universally accepted as some here (ERCougar) are suggesting.

I don't care what people drink. But if someone starts talking about herbal berries and crap like that, I will always point out that they are basically full of crap as it pertains to official Church policy.

Thanks!

[SoCalCoug]

Fascinating how we got to this level of specificity from such a benign revelation.

Actually, I think it's more a function of how diverse tea has become in the modern times. When Joseph Smith had the revelation, you couldn't go down to the corner Starbucks and get a mocha chai tea or double latte or whatever the heck they have. There were really only two types of "hot drinks" then: they had "coffee" and they had "tea". Coffee was made from coffee beans, and tea was made from tea leaves. Back in the 1940's (I believe), the first presidency issued a statement saying that "hot drinks" means coffee and tea. I don't think Starbucks was around then, either.

Now, we have 50 billion types of drinks made from coffee beans, and 50 million types of drinks made from tea leaves. But what it boils down to, in my mind, is that the stuff derived from coffee beans is "coffee" and the stuff derived from tea leaves is "tea" for purposes of the Word of Wisdom. But that's just me.

The "level of specificity" is not a function of the revelation, but a function of our current coffee- and tea-drinking culture.

[wuapinmon]

Probably in the top 60% of the world.

This is why HFNW is among the best of the best posters.

A++ (yes, that's two plusses [or pluses, both spellings are acceptable]).

[SoCalCoug]

This is why HFNW is among the best of the best posters.

A++ (yes, that's two plusses [or pluses, both spellings are acceptable]).

But not "plussies" because that just gets confusing.

[statman]

Okay. I am totally being serious here, and not flippant. What if you have an iced coffee or iced tea? It's not hot right?

This is one part of the WOW I have a difficult time with. I don't know what to think. My BFF's bishop told her that drinking Lipton Green iced tea was okay. I had been using tea for nausea and asked my bishop if it was okay. He said no...

Sigh...

Using tea for nausea is using it as a medication. Of course that's okay. Aren't narcotics out of bounds, but fine if medicinally necessary?

In a public health seminar my wife took for CE credit, the one really valuable take-away she got from it was if you have to improvise with something to treat intestinal problems from water-born illness, tea would be the thing. It treats the nausea as well as the diahrrea. It can literally be the difference between life or death in some cases.

After taking that course, my wife went out and bought a bunch of tea for our food storage.

[statman]

Fascinating how we got to this level of specificity from such a benign revelation.

It's for the hair splitters. The Church has said that D&C 89's "hot drinks" reference means coffee and tea.

"Coffee" is easy to understand. Whether it applies to iced coffee or coffee ice cream is still in question I guess, but there is only one plant people associate with "coffee."

"Tea" is a bit harder, because (1) there is a plant called the "tea plant" that is the source of the teas I listed above. And then (2) there is a generic name for any drink in which leaves of a plant are soaked in hot water, filtered, and the remaining broth is consumed.

So which definition is it? If it's #1, then all those teas are forbidden.

If it's #2, then... ... all of those teas are forbidden as well.

Simple logic tells you that anyone who's convinced themselves that drinking green tea is okay, is fooling themselves. Or trying to anyway...

[Pheidippides]

Okay. I am totally being serious here, and not flippant. What if you have an iced coffee or iced tea? It's not hot right?

This is one part of the WOW I have a difficult time with. I don't know what to think. My BFF's bishop told her that drinking Lipton Green iced tea was okay. I had been using tea for nausea and asked my bishop if it was okay. He said no...

Sigh...

SG, you are cool, and the wife of a lawyer besides, so I'll let you in on this little secret.

In Japan, when I was there, there was actually a list of some 50-odd teas that was circulating around the church, with some listed as "yes" and some as "no". I have no idea what the criteria was. We were instructed to teach people that tea made out of leaves was bad, but that makes no sense, since it excludes stuff like peppermint tea and such.

It was nonsensical at best. Green Tea was very much a "no" tea - but there are bishops here who think otherwise. The difference is entirely ascribable, in my view, to cultural backdrop.

You can also compare that with our unique underwear issues. The bishop of my wife's ward when I got married was of the "wear all the time for everything view," whereas a later bishop (who was also a religion prof at BYU) very much thought that time spent chillin' in the nude was important for a marriage.

I have long since adopted the David O. McKay approach: I don't really care, as long as I'm not affirmatively and actively doing something I know is wrong. I think it's one of the reasons the TR questions are so vague.

My view is that a lot of it is made up as people go along, and I fully expect that one day I'll kick back a cold one after a good endowment session, and do so in full faith and fellowship.

[lady duckcoug]

Is green tea against the word of wisdom? I hear some people say it is because it is a tea leaf, but I know we can drink herbal tea...
It's in weight loss pills, vitamins, energy drinks, almost everything!!! Someone said you couldn't drink it as a tea but that it was fine as a powder, which doesn't really make sense. Is this just one of the grey areas of the word of wisdom?

Thanks to everyone for a lively discussion with so many opinions! Now I want to chime in. I don't drink coffee, alcohol or "tea", but I do eat/drink things that have some of those things in them. Coffee flavored ice cream, alcohol to cook with, and pills or drinks that contain "green tea extract." As hypocritical as this may seem to some, I guess I make a distinction because the intent of the word of wisdom was on "hot drink" coffee and tea. I don't think that makes iced versions of them acceptable, as iced versions are basically the same as the hot (just cooled down-obviously), but it does make things with their flavor or extract just different.

The caffeine discussion is equally, if not more, polarizing than the "what makes tea, tea?" debate. I think this depends on the addiction factor, and I won't even go into that.

I think it would help you all running for prophet if you promised some pay for the more demanding callings. I am in the YW presidency and could really use some monetary recognition for all the time I put in. I mean, what do "priestcrafts" really mean in this day and age, anyway? On the ward level, highest pay to Bishop. Second highest pay?

[Pheidippides]

Second highest pay?

Definitely RS president, with a bonus if she learns how to keep her trap shut.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Simple logic tells you that anyone who's convinced themselves that drinking green tea is okay, is fooling themselves. Or trying to anyway...

I suppose simple logic also tells you that we shouldn't be eating any grains but wheat. And that you should eat meat only in rare occasions. Or are you trying to fool yourself?

I visited the Hare Krishna temple in SF last weekend. They had a very long and persuasive list of quotes from earlier LDS church leaders on how important it is to eat meat sparingly or not at all.

[Coach McGuirk]

I just had a green tea crystal light add in. Yum!