Soccer Mom's thread grabbed my attention.

[Portland Ute]

I appreciate her post and most of the replies to it.

I, like most here, am LDS. I'm 34. I'm finding as life progresses that things aren't quite as tidy as I once believed them to be at the age of 19-21.

I rarely post on this forum, much less in the "The Foyer", but I have to admit that there is some degree of comfort that comes from hearing other people struggle. Knowing that I'm not the "only one."

Not the only one that doesn't "just love going to the Temple."

Not the only one that is bored by the 3 hour block. Not the only one that goes home from the 3 hour block MORE tired then when I arrived.

Not the only one that doesn't go to the temple regularly.

Not the only one that doesn't get great inspiration from reading a book over and over again.

Not the only one that has a hard time saying "I KNOW" when sharing a testimony...finding I "believe" or I "hope" to be more honest.

Not the only one that doesn't believe that falling asleep at night after "physical acts of love" without the garment is not a one way ticket to a fiery hell.

I guess you get my point. This post is a bit cathartic. To be honest, this is really the first time I've shared a lot of these thoughts with anyone, for many of the reasons stated in that thread started by Soccermom.

I get to the point, a lot of times, where I just start to think, "What is WRONG with me???" When I hear someone going on and on about how much they love the temple. Or when I hear them saying that they never feel any closer to God then in the Temple. Or how strong the Spirit was in a meeting...a meeting in which I was really trying to feel or learn something but came away...well, empty.

Does anyone else feel this way? I guess some of you do. I just get tired of going to Church meetings and hearing other people's glowing reviews of the scriptures, or the Temple and wondering why, if I am TRYING, do i not have the same experience.

I feel love. I feel warmth when I serve and am served. That's really it. It's what I hang onto for dear life. Really, the times when I am most touched at church, or anywhere, are the times when I hear of people reaching out to people and making a difference. But, like someone mentioned, it seems like the more I *think*, the less I feel.

Well, this is a rambling post. Not a good debut for me in "The Foyer." It's to be expected, I suppose. I am not as erudite as others. My vocabulary is not as polished. I am not a wordsmith. My views and opinions flow from observation and emotions, not from deep seated understanding of the great philosophers or authors.

I guess, I just "am." It's good to know that there are others who, like me, want to be part of the Church, and just "are."

[RobinFinderson]

I appreciate her post and most of the replies to it.

I, like most here, am LDS. I'm 34. I'm finding as life progresses that things aren't quite as tidy as I once believed them to be at the age of 19-21.

I rarely post on this forum, much less in the "The Foyer", but I have to admit that there is some degree of comfort that comes from hearing other people struggle. Knowing that I'm not the "only one."

Not the only one that doesn't "just love going to the Temple."

Not the only one that is bored by the 3 hour block. Not the only one that goes home from the 3 hour block MORE tired then when I arrived.

Not the only one that doesn't go to the temple regularly.

Not the only one that doesn't get great inspiration from reading a book over and over again.

Not the only one that has a hard time saying "I KNOW" when sharing a testimony...finding I "believe" or I "hope" to be more honest.

Not the only one that doesn't believe that falling asleep at night after "physical acts of love" without the garment is not a one way ticket to a fiery hell.

I guess you get my point. This post is a bit cathartic. To be honest, this is really the first time I've shared a lot of these thoughts with anyone, for many of the reasons stated in that thread started by Soccermom.

I get to the point, a lot of times, where I just start to think, "What is WRONG with me???" When I hear someone going on and on about how much they love the temple. Or when I hear them saying that they never feel any closer to God then in the Temple. Or how strong the Spirit was in a meeting...a meeting in which I was really trying to feel or learn something but came away...well, empty.

Does anyone else feel this way? I guess some of you do. I just get tired of going to Church meetings and hearing other people's glowing reviews of the scriptures, or the Temple and wondering why, if I am TRYING, do i not have the same experience.

I feel love. I feel warmth when I serve an am served. That's really it. It's what I hang onto for dear life. Really, the times when I am most touched at church, or anywhere, are the times when I hear of people reaching out to people and making a difference. But, like someone mentioned, it seems like the more I *think*, the less I feel.

Well, this is a rambling post. Not a good debut for me in "The Foyer." It's to be expected, I suppose. I am not as erudite as others. My vocabulary is not as polished. I am not a wordsmith. My views and opinions flow from observation and emotions, not from deep seated understanding of the great philosophers or authors.

I guess, I just "am." It's good to know that there are others who, like me, want to be part of the Church, and just "are."

Nice post Portland. Very brave. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you. These feelings are 100% normal, and I hope it brings you some peace to know that you are not at all alone in feeling this way. To serve and be served, or to love and be loved, are two ways of saying the same thing. It is really what life is all about. That is the one true iron rod, and if you realize that, you are ahead in the game. Best wishes.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Great post. This forum is a great place to vent, ramble, question, learn, etc.

Reading your words it seems that you are most frustrated by not "feeling" things the way people tell you they do. My experience is some(not all) of the people who have glowing reviews and say things that of that vein are trying to "fake it til they make it". They think they are supposed to feel that way so they keep saying it hoping they will eventually feel that way for real. I personally struggled with that until I realized that my experience is mine and only mine. It is to be as good as I need it to be, not as good as others say it should be.

I don't want anyone to think that I am discounting the strong feelings of the spirit that they have experienced. Good for them. I am simply saying that the feelings that you have are more important than the feelings that you "should have".

[il Padrino Ute]

This is an excellent post, Port. Thanks for sharing.

I think you'll find that you are in the majority here as it pertains to a lot of the things you posted. This is a forum where most feel comfortable being themselves.

[Portland Ute]

To be clear, Jarid, I don't recall anyone ever telling me how I should feel. Rather, I hear so many others sharing how THEY feel, that I start to believe that's how I should feel.

Does that make sense?

This all on top of the fact that I am not blessed to have great, unwavering, unquestioning, "ROCK SOLID" faith. I have hope. I have beliefs.

I also have other things that I just don't believe, that probably would make many of my local leaders uncomfortable. Like what I mentioned about the garment. Or, that I actually feel closer to God...feel more peace...more inspiration sitting on the shore of Temple Lake in the Wind Rivers than I do at the Temple called Jordan River.

That's the struggle. I mean, to be quite honest, I have had doubts about just about everything. Right down to the "BIG ONE": Are there really a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother? Sometimes it seems very clear to me that, yes, there are. Other times, it's not so clear.

I ask myself constantly WHY do I struggle so much? Which, in turn, causes stress.

And as was mentioned in Soccermom's thread, (by whom, I can't remember), most anyone you talk to is not going to be able to help. IN fact, you run the risk of being an outcast: "Oh, we need to get him out of Young Men's. We can't have him in such an important role with the youth. We need someone with a strong testimony."

Ugh.

[wuapinmon]

Knowing that I'm not the "only one."

Not the only one that doesn't "just love going to the Temple."

Not the only one that is bored by the 3 hour block. Not the only one that goes home from the 3 hour block MORE tired then when I arrived.

Not the only one that doesn't go to the temple regularly.

Not the only one that doesn't get great inspiration from reading a book over and over again.

Not the only one that has a hard time saying "I KNOW" when sharing a testimony...finding I "believe" or I "hope" to be more honest.

I get to the point, a lot of times, where I just start to think, "What is WRONG with me???" When I hear someone going on and on about how much they love the temple. Or when I hear them saying that they never feel any closer to God then in the Temple. Or how strong the Spirit was in a meeting...a meeting in which I was really trying to feel or learn something but came away...well, empty.

I was in the tiny New Orleans Uptown Branch pre-Katrina and the combined NOLA 1st Branch post-K. We lived there five years and we loved it. It wasn't a feigned love......we got the place. We love it. We want to be there right now, though the crime and storms make us not want to live there anymore. There were lots of people who didn't like it there. They viewed their time in the Big Easy as something to be endured; that they were doing us a favor by choosing Tulane or LSU for med/law/PhD school. For the most part the husbands studied and the wives stayed home with the kids. Most of the ones that hated the place lived out in the suburbs, though some would show up because they didn't read the ward boundaries right and rented in Gentilly Ridge, which was our branch, but Gentilly was the 1st Ward--they stayed a year and then bid us a tearful goodbye as they white-flighted their asses to the suburbs. We heard racist asides all the time from the suburbanites (e.g. "I won't go Uptown at night; it's full of black people. I don't feel safe"). And then, because we were a little branch, these same people would get called into Stake Presidencies.....YM, YW, Primary, RS, etc. They would attend our ward sometimes and speak. When it was their last time visiting before their husbands or they graduated and moved away, we'd hear their mission farewell talks. They would stand at the front of the chapel (there is no stand) and cry and say how much they had grown to love the place and the people and blah blah blah. They were full of shit and we all knew it. My point, some people are sincere, but many people lie and overcompensate because they feel just what you feel....oftentimes, nothing. That's not to say that people who claim what you've said are lying, but like Macbeth, sometimes people protest too much.

Does anyone else feel this way? I guess some of you do. I just get tired of going to Church meetings and hearing other people's glowing reviews of the scriptures, or the Temple and wondering why, if I am TRYING, do i not have the same experience.

It's because you are dead inside. Repent. Kidding.

Well, this is a rambling post. Not a good debut for me in "The Foyer." It's to be expected, I suppose. I am not as erudite as others. My vocabulary is not as polished. I am not a wordsmith. My views and opinions flow from observation and emotions, not from deep seated understanding of the great philosophers or authors.

I guess, I just "am." It's good to know that there are others who, like me, want to be part of the Church, and just "are."

Your experiences and responses are what matter. If you understand something, you can use it to embellish your ideas, but if your audience doesn't get the reference, it's not as satisfying. Welcome to the board!

[Tick's wife]

I feel that same...that is probably y I m having such a hard time right now. I am always asking myself "what is wrong with me?" and thinking why didn't I feel the spirit...

[Jarid in Cedar]

To be clear, Jarid, I don't recall anyone ever telling me how I should feel. Rather, I hear so many others sharing how THEY feel, that I start to believe that's how I should feel.

.

That is how I read it as well, sorry my post insinuated otherwise.

[Portland Ute]

It's because you are dead inside. Repent. Kidding.

That's only kinda funny...only because I'm starting to wonder if I am.

[scottie]

Stick around Portland, you'll like it here.

[byu71]

To some the gift is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he died for our sins.

To others the gift is given to believe on their words that they might have eternal life.

Not quoted verbatum, but it is in the D&C Section 46 I think versus 11 and 12.

I don't think I have the first gift. When I realized this, it was comforting to me. That gift wasn't given me. The scripture to me doesn't indicate anything about worthiness to receive the certain gifts. I think the scripture says something like "to some it is given and to others it is given".


There are some whom I hear and am touched. Truthfully most I don't. I feel, good for them, but I am not touched. For me, this scripture gives me an out to not worry about someone who seems to have more faith than I do. I can only do the best with what gifts I was given.


For the intellects or religionists on the board, if I have botched the understanding of the scripture, don't tell me. I like how I feel about it.

[wuapinmon]

That's only kinda funny...only because I'm starting to wonder if I am.

If you are, so am I. I could've written almost every word you wrote, from my own experiences. You are not dead inside. At times like these, when I feel down, I reminded of the words of an unorthodox prophet, Robest Nesta Marley, who said:

"We all defend the right/
Jah Jah children must unite/
Your life is worth much more than gold!"

[Drunk Tank]

Port-

My most spiritual experiences have always been outside the church. I cant recall any defining or "a-ha" moments that have occured within the 3 hour block of meetings we call church, but I have had some moments of clarity that were deeply spiritual to me, that I cant deny. I often wonder about those in church who profess to feel the spirit so strongly in church, and are so happy all the time. It has to be a show, right? I feel the closest to God when I am out in nature, similar to you, and what I can recall of the temple is confusing. I have my beliefs, but as far as the church goes, it seems as late I am just along for the ride.


On a side note, partially un-related....

Tonight I was sitting in missionary correlation (I am asst. ward mission leader....a do nothing calling)..and everyone was discussing an 18 y.o. investigator who's parents are apostolic. He likes the church but is afraid of being dis-owned by his parents who are very anti. Everybody was saying things like "tell him to make a stand"..> "tell him to pray and make a decision" "lets find someone in the ard who was dis-owned to help him relate"...I was like WTF? They were totally towing the party line..He is 18, but still in HS. He lives with his parents. Why would we want to do anything that may potentially drive a wedge between him and his family, in turn, leaving a bad taste in their mouths about the church, more so than they already have? For heavens sake, fellowship the kid, and if its not the right time, then dont try to force it. I am wrong in this?

[byu71]

Port-

My most spiritual experiences have always been outside the church. I cant recall any defining or "a-ha" moments that have occured within the 3 hour block of meetings we call church, but I have had some moments of clarity that were deeply spiritual to me, that I cant deny. I often wonder about those in church who profess to feel the spirit so strongly in church, and are so happy all the time. It has to be a show, right? I feel the closest to God when I am out in nature, similar to you, and what I can recall of the temple is confusing. I have my beliefs, but as far as the church goes, it seems as late I am just along for the ride.


On a side note, partially un-related....

Tonight I was sitting in missionary correlation (I am asst. ward mission leader....a do nothing calling)..and everyone was discussing an 18 y.o. investigator who's parents are apostolic. He likes the church but is afraid of being dis-owned by his parents who are very anti. Everybody was saying things like "tell him to make a stand"..> "tell him to pray and make a decision" "lets find someone in the ard who was dis-owned to help him relate"...I was like WTF? They were totally towing the party line..He is 18, but still in HS. He lives with his parents. Why would we want to do anything that may potentially drive a wedge between him and his family, in turn, leaving a bad taste in their mouths about the church, more so than they already have? For heavens sake, fellowship the kid, and if its not the right time, then dont try to force it. I am wrong in this?

There are some people I believe who have too much faith. They don't think about the consequences the "faith" and decisions they make for others will have on those people. They have ready made excuses for why things didn't work out well.

[Art Vandelay]

Port-

My most spiritual experiences have always been outside the church. I cant recall any defining or "a-ha" moments that have occured within the 3 hour block of meetings we call church, but I have had some moments of clarity that were deeply spiritual to me, that I cant deny. I often wonder about those in church who profess to feel the spirit so strongly in church, and are so happy all the time. It has to be a show, right? I feel the closest to God when I am out in nature, similar to you, and what I can recall of the temple is confusing. I have my beliefs, but as far as the church goes, it seems as late I am just along for the ride.


On a side note, partially un-related....

Tonight I was sitting in missionary correlation (I am asst. ward mission leader....a do nothing calling)..and everyone was discussing an 18 y.o. investigator who's parents are apostolic. He likes the church but is afraid of being dis-owned by his parents who are very anti. Everybody was saying things like "tell him to make a stand"..> "tell him to pray and make a decision" "lets find someone in the ard who was dis-owned to help him relate"...I was like WTF? They were totally towing the party line..He is 18, but still in HS. He lives with his parents. Why would we want to do anything that may potentially drive a wedge between him and his family, in turn, leaving a bad taste in their mouths about the church, more so than they already have? For heavens sake, fellowship the kid, and if its not the right time, then dont try to force it. I am wrong in this?

I'm a big believer in helping individuals feel and recognize the Spirit and letting them learn for themselves what is the right course of action. I'm always very uncomfortable being asked to tell a person which decision to make, unless one choice is obviously contrary to established doctrine. I rarely will preface my statement by saying what I would do, but I always counsel to do what is best for them and their personal situation. One of the great harms in life is the assumption that what is best for me and my family is likewise best for you and yours.