Soccer Mom's thread grabbed my attention.

[Rosebud]

Well, this is a rambling post. Not a good debut for me in "The Foyer." It's to be expected, I suppose. I am not as erudite as others. My vocabulary is not as polished. I am not a wordsmith. My views and opinions flow from observation and emotions, not from deep seated understanding of the great philosophers or authors.

Your post is incredible Portland. I hope you keep posting in the Foyer. IMO, sincere opinions that come from observations and emotions make up some of the best threads. Thanks for sharing.

[Goatnapper'96]

You are clearly out of touch with the Spirit. I hope you feel very bad about yourself.

He made me chuckle telling the story of a really stubborn Stake President that he had to argue with to see the light. I thought they both sounded stubborn just that one had a bigger stick to swing.

But these things don't bother me, the Church is an organization and it needs to function. I just don't think because somebody has great organizational and leadership abilities that are put to use by the Church that his recommendations that we teach our kids the plan of salvation are any more germane than a 6 year old in primary making the same recommendation. In fact I often enjoy the 6 year old more.

[cowboy]

...While I think I recognize most of what you see and refer to, it doesn't bother me. I enjoy Church for myself and because I think it is good. I think I enjoy it most when I find my efforts there of benefit to others.

I think you nailed that like...well, I probably shouldn't say in this thread, but you get the picture. I am of the opinion that we should go to church for others, and then we'll be edified ourselves. If we go just looking for our own edification, then we'll usually leave disappointed.

I admit that I endure sacrament meetings. With four small kids, I can only count the minutes until the closing prayer. SS and EQ can be extremely uplifting though, depending on the willingness of the teachers to encourage everyone to participate. We have our share of the the self-righteous, but we also have some salt-of-the-earth folks who offer a lot of wisdom. If I feel I have taught or participated in a way that has helped someone, then the entire 3-hour block was worth every second.

[Pheidippides]

I think you nailed that like...well, I probably shouldn't say in this thread, but you get the picture. I am of the opinion that we should go to church for others, and then we'll be edified ourselves. If we go just looking for our own edification, then we'll usually leave disappointed.

I admit that I endure sacrament meetings. With four small kids, I can only count the minutes until the closing prayer. SS and EQ can be extremely uplifting though, depending on the willingness of the teachers to encourage everyone to participate. We have our share of the the self-righteous, but we also have some salt-of-the-earth folks who offer a lot of wisdom. If I feel I have taught or participated in a way that has helped someone, then the entire 3-hour block was worth every second.

I go to worship God, which sort of ties into your "others" opinion. I don't get much out of sacrament/SS anymore.

[SeattleUte]

I think one reason God put us on earth was to suffer endless banality and stultification, and to discipline ourselves to believe nonsense and absurdities.

[RC Vikings]

I think one reason God put us on earth was to suffer endless banality and stultification, and to discipline ourselves to believe nonsense and absurdities.

I think we are doing a hell of a job then.

[Tex]

To some the gift is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he died for our sins.

To others the gift is given to believe on their words that they might have eternal life.

Not quoted verbatum, but it is in the D&C Section 46 I think versus 11 and 12.

I don't think I have the first gift. When I realized this, it was comforting to me. That gift wasn't given me. The scripture to me doesn't indicate anything about worthiness to receive the certain gifts. I think the scripture says something like "to some it is given and to others it is given".


There are some whom I hear and am touched. Truthfully most I don't. I feel, good for them, but I am not touched. For me, this scripture gives me an out to not worry about someone who seems to have more faith than I do. I can only do the best with what gifts I was given.


For the intellects or religionists on the board, if I have botched the understanding of the scripture, don't tell me. I like how I feel about it.

This is the scripture I was going to quote, and more or less sums up my view on the matter. Don't have a heart attack about that, '71.

[Goatnapper'96]

I go to worship God, which sort of ties into your "others" opinion. I don't get much out of sacrament/SS anymore.

I enjoy sacrament. I fight 4 little kids and mormon culture is mormon culture wherever you go. Saying that, I think the dynamics of very small town living makes sacrament more enjoyable. Since the community is so close I really enjoy watching the youth speak and present their musical numbers. I hate "I walk today..blah blah blah" as previously stated if given the chance I would punch Jenni Phillips in the vagina. However, I love the young ladies singing that ridiculously insipid song. I coach these kids in sports, root for them in every extracurricular event that they participate in in high school. They represent the town and community I dearly love. Their success and development is something I love to watch and enjoy. I will watch these kids give their first talks as sunbeams and get to watch them through high school, go to college, get married and even return as missionaries. I think the closeness and how our lives are interwoven in a community such as this makes their damned boringness easier to tolerate.

[marsupial]

We had some Jewish friends in Memphis who seemed to always be serving us pork every time they had us over. Once they made pizza with bacon on it. The husband asked his wife to offer a traditional Hebrew prayer over the meal. His wife thought it was a little ridiculous to be saying the Jewish prayer over such a meal, but the husband insisted, saying that even though they are not religious, they are still Jewish and he wanted to go through the motions anyway. It was a way to remember who he was and honor his culture.

Anyway, I have plenty of doubts about the church, but whether or not it is all true, part true or completely false, it is my church, my heritage, my culture and what I know. I go through the motions. I pray, attend church, visit teach, pay tithing, wear my garments, keep the WOW, etc. I could leave the church and stop doing all of those things, but I would feel out of sorts. I would also miss the connection I have with my religious community. In the end, the social and service opportunities my membership affords me are worth going through the motions. It helps me live a good and honest life. It gives me a nice framework for raising my children.

So, I don't think a fired-up testimony of the gospel is required to be a participating and contributing member.

[Pheidippides]

I enjoy sacrament. I fight 4 little kids and mormon culture is mormon culture wherever you go. Saying that, I think the dynamics of very small town living makes sacrament more enjoyable. Since the community is so close I really enjoy watching the youth speak and present their musical numbers. I hate "I walk today..blah blah blah" as previously stated if given the chance I would punch Jenni Phillips in the vagina. However, I love the young ladies singing that ridiculously insipid song. I coach these kids in sports, root for them in every extracurricular event that they participate in in high school. They represent the town and community I dearly love. Their success and development is something I love to watch and enjoy. I will watch these kids give their first talks as sunbeams and get to watch them through high school, go to college, get married and even return as missionaries. I think the closeness and how our lives are interwoven in a community such as this makes their damned boringness easier to tolerate.

Amen to both you and soup.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I enjoy sacrament. I fight 4 little kids and mormon culture is mormon culture wherever you go. Saying that, I think the dynamics of very small town living makes sacrament more enjoyable. Since the community is so close I really enjoy watching the youth speak and present their musical numbers. I hate "I walk today..blah blah blah" as previously stated if given the chance I would punch Jenni Phillips in the vagina. However, I love the young ladies singing that ridiculously insipid song. I coach these kids in sports, root for them in every extracurricular event that they participate in in high school. They represent the town and community I dearly love. Their success and development is something I love to watch and enjoy. I will watch these kids give their first talks as sunbeams and get to watch them through high school, go to college, get married and even return as missionaries. I think the closeness and how our lives are interwoven in a community such as this makes their damned boringness easier to tolerate.

Well said, friend.

This is why I feel lucky to have worked in YM/scouts for so long. Working with youth, watching them grow and learn, and sharing in their trials and successes is immensely rewarding.

[LA Ute]

But these things don't bother me, the Church is an organization and it needs to function.

I read somewhere, once (it might have been in Sunstone, back when I read that publication) that after all is said and done, our church is just a bunch of imperfect people (with some extraordinary common beliefs) trying to love each other, serve each other, forgive each other and find joy in life. Sounds pretty accurate to me, and I am comfortable with it.

[Soccermom]

This is an excellent post, Port. Thanks for sharing.

I think you'll find that you are in the majority here as it pertains to a lot of the things you posted. This is a forum where most feel comfortable being themselves.

I agree. Thanks for sharing. Who would have thought the cheesy church song "You're Not Alone" would be so applicable to us CUF'ers?

[byu71]

This is the scripture I was going to quote, and more or less sums up my view on the matter. Don't have a heart attack about that, '71.

I won't have a heart attack unless you also say you aren't someone who got the gift to "KNOW".

[SuperGabers]

Add me to the list of folks who also feel the way you do PortUte... Except I would add VTing to the list of things I loathe...