discussing polyandry with the missionaries

[Pheidippides]

I understand that, Marsupial, but what are the missionaries supposed to do with the information Danimal gave them? Sit down with the questioning investigator and a copy of Compton's book and some apologetic responses and try to puzzle through the complexities of what we know and don't know? I am not being flippant, just trying to make a point. I can't imagine trying to prepare missionaries to deal with these controversial questions in much depth. They are taught to postpone discussion of such issues and re-direct the investigator to the BofM and to the "read ponder and pray" formula (along with attending church). In special cases there are ways to get into those subjects in depth.

The problem with that is (as a current experience in my ward, at least, bears out) is that the "read, ponder and pray" approach has investigators thinking that the missionaries are trying to hide the ball - when the truth is they don't even know what the ball looks like. That is to say, they start asking the same questions I did a few years ago: why is the Church lying to me, and why would I want to be a part of it?

It took me a few years to work through that. But now that I have, I'm completely comfortable working through some of the thornier aspects of church history with questioning investigators, and have volunteered to do so with the Elders should the need arise.

And maybe that's the best answer - I completely see the point about preparing missionaries to deal with such subjects. I don't think you can do it practically in the MTC to be sure.

[Indy Coug]

Is this directed at me? Thanks for the definition, my google is broken. My opinions have all changed now.

I'm just surprised your curiosity didn't coerce you to look it up.

[SeattleUte]

In terms of coersion, no, there aren't real Gestapo. But there is plenty of psychological coersion, and the coersing and coersed alike are all participants in a great circle of coersion. Here is an example from an unimpeachable source.

I think we are very hard on 18-19 year-old men in our church. They are really just boy/men trying to meet very high standards in difficult times. Working with the YM over the last 12 years or so has really impressed on me how large the mission "rite of passage" looms in their lives and what utter failures they feel like if they can't or don't serve - whatever the reason. I think it's a problem in the Church but I don't know what to do about it.

[Indy Coug]

I made the word "authority" bold, too.

Both you and falafel failed to respond to the main point of my post. Speaks volumes.

[SeattleUte]

He did however marry women who had lost their husbands or divorced with dozens of kids who are mostly older than him.But my understanding says it doesnot fall into polyandry category.

Timing is everything, isn't it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Interesting, weren't you asking in one of your previous posts what Danimal got the most enjoyment from, the shock of laying a bomb, or the fact they had no response? Interesting indeed.......

That was actually an inside joke, meant for UtahDan. He got it.

That's not what I said, either.

[falafel]

I'm just surprised your curiosity didn't coerce you to look it up.

Har har.

In terms of coersion, no, there aren't real Gestapo. But there is plenty of psychological coersion, and the coersing and coersed alike are all participants in a great circle of coersion. Here is an example from an unimpeachable source.

This is what I was referring to.

[JohnnyLingo]

On this I agree with you. Missionaries shouldn't be surprised at questions about Joseph Smith. Maybe some MTC time should be devoted to preparing them for such curveballs. (Maybe they already do that in the MTC. Anyone know?)

Heck no. Rah rah rah all the way.

[Rosebud]

So there's a major disconnect between what God expects of us and what the Church teaches?

This is the question of the hour, IMO. If there is no disconnect then it is in everyone's best eternal interest to rigidly follow the teachings of the church. If there is disconnect, however, our decision making processes may need to be more sophisticated. Black-and-white thinking about the church's positions is sometimes insufficient when considering complex life problems.

Not sure exactly what that has to do with this thread, however....

[Pheidippides]

Black-and-white thinking about the church's positions is sometimes insufficient when considering complex life problems.

Actually, I've decided to adopt a black-and-white thought process. As in, if it's not in black-and-white print in a current official publication, I don't feel obligated to believe it.

[LA Ute]

In terms of coersion, no, there aren't real Gestapo. But there is plenty of psychological coersion, and the coersing and coersed alike are all participants in a great circle of coersion. Here is an example from an unimpeachable source.

Originally Posted by LA Ute:
I think we are very hard on 18-19 year-old men in our church. They are really just boy/men trying to meet very high standards in difficult times. Working with the YM over the last 12 years or so has really impressed on me how large the mission "rite of passage" looms in their lives and what utter failures they feel like if they can't or don't serve - whatever the reason. I think it's a problem in the Church but I don't know what to do about it.

I wasn't talking about coercion. I was talking about how we deal with men who do not serve missions. Your failure to see the difference speaks volumes.

I do need to say, however, that if Major League Baseball had existed in the 1840s and Joseph had been a Yankees fan, then I really would be struggling with my faith . . . .

[The Wankster]

That was actually an inside joke, meant for UtahDan. He got it.

That's not what I said, either.

I suppose I wasn't in on your inside joke, and it may not have been exactly what you wrote, but it most certainly looked like what you were saying.....

Thanks for clearing it up, you looked a bit hypocritical with your last posting....

[Rosebud]

Both you and falafel failed to respond to the main point of my post. Speaks volumes.

I didn't understand the connection between your false accusation that falafel doesn't understand the definition of "coercion" and the rest of your post (which has some merit).

[MindfulCoug]

Timing is everything, isn't it.

Well..I am a little concerned about the definiton .Just trying to help!

[LA Ute]

The problem with that is (as a current experience in my ward, at least, bears out) is that the "read, ponder and pray" approach has investigators thinking that the missionaries are trying to hide the ball - when the truth is they don't even know what the ball looks like. That is to say, they start asking the same questions I did a few years ago: why is the Church lying to me, and why would I want to be a part of it?

It took me a few years to work through that. But now that I have, I'm completely comfortable working through some of the thornier aspects of church history with questioning investigators, and have volunteered to do so with the Elders should the need arise.

And maybe that's the best answer - I completely see the point about preparing missionaries to deal with such subjects. I don't think you can do it practically in the MTC to be sure.

Agreed, such preparation is a good idea. It probably should be done in the missions, not the MTC. In Guatemala and El Salvador, where I served, such questions might come up once in a blue moon and almost always from a hostile source. (I never got such questions, not even once.) An investigator who was sincere and had simply seen some "anti" literature could be helped individually. (I doubt Compton's book has been translated into Spanish. Maybe I am wrong.)

In the USA and other English-speaking countries, the approach would be different and more preparation would be necessary, seems to me.