discussing polyandry with the missionaries

[JohnnyLingo]

What would the constructive purpose be to bring up Masonry or polyandry with the missionaries? Just curious....

There isn't one. It's just screwing with kids who are already running on pretty much faith alone. Poking a stick into their bicycle tire spokes just for fun seems kind of pointless.

[smokymountainrain]

What would the constructive purpose be to bring up Masonry or polyandry with the missionaries? Just curious....

I'm not sure, but it sure does make for an interesting thread the next day on CUF!

[marsupial]

There isn't one. It's just screwing with kids who are already running on pretty much faith alone. Poking a stick into their bicycle tire spokes just for fun seems kind of pointless.

Danimal is reading the book In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith, so Joseph Smith's polyandry has been on the forefront of his mind. Last night, the missionaries dropped in on him unannounced and he just asked them what they thought about it.

Also, missionaries get bombarded with all sorts of questions from people investigating the church. Many investigators take it to the internet and ask all sorts of questions about what they find there. This is not a topic that we need to protect these "kids" from, as it is likely they will get questions about it at some time from people they teach.

[DU Ute]

Danimal is reading the book In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith, so Joseph Smith's polyandry has been on the forefront of his mind. Last night, the missionaries dropped in on him unannounced and he just asked them what they thought about it.

Also, missionaries get bombarded with all sorts of questions from people investigating the church. Many investigators take it to the internet and ask all sorts of questions about what they find there. This is not a topic that we need to protect these "kids" from, as it is likely they will get questions about it at some time from people they teach.

That'll teach 'em!

[LA Ute]

Danimal is reading the book In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith, so Joseph Smith's polyandry has been on the forefront of his mind. Last night, the missionaries dropped in on him unannounced and he just asked them what they thought about it.

Also, missionaries get bombarded with all sorts of questions from people investigating the church. Many investigators take it to the internet and ask all sorts of questions about what they find there. This is not a topic that we need to protect these "kids" from, as it is likely they will get questions about it at some time from people they teach.

I understand that, Marsupial, but what are the missionaries supposed to do with the information Danimal gave them? Sit down with the questioning investigator and a copy of Compton's book and some apologetic responses and try to puzzle through the complexities of what we know and don't know? I am not being flippant, just trying to make a point. I can't imagine trying to prepare missionaries to deal with these controversial questions in much depth. They are taught to postpone discussion of such issues and re-direct the investigator to the BofM and to the "read ponder and pray" formula (along with attending church). In special cases there are ways to get into those subjects in depth.

[smokymountainrain]

I understand that, Marsupial, but what are the missionaries supposed to do with the information Danimal gave them? Sit down with the questioning investigator and a copy of Compton's book and some apologetic responses and try to puzzle through the complexities of what we know and don't know? I am not being flippant, just trying to make a point. I can't imagine trying to prepare missionaries to deal with these controversial questions in much depth. They are taught to postpone discussion of such issues and re-direct the investigator to the BofM and to the "read ponder and pray" formula (along with attending church). In special cases there are ways to get into those subjects in depth.

I was about to ask the question to Marsupial...Does Danimal feel like the missionaries are now better prepared to deal with those types of questions that might come from people investigating the church?

If so, I think it's great that he was willing to sit down with them and help them out in that way.

[Indy Coug]

I never had one investigator that asked those kinds of questions that really had any intent of changing religions; they simply liked a good discussion and to see how much they could make missionaries wiggle uncomfortably. They were not questions made in good faith.

For those that received a spiritual witness of the truth, the conversations centered on the gospel fundamentals.

So whether missionaries are properly equipped to handle these topics or not, as far as the business of teaching and baptizing goes, is largely irrelevant.

[Art Vandelay]

Danimal is reading the book In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith, so Joseph Smith's polyandry has been on the forefront of his mind. Last night, the missionaries dropped in on him unannounced and he just asked them what they thought about it.

Also, missionaries get bombarded with all sorts of questions from people investigating the church. Many investigators take it to the internet and ask all sorts of questions about what they find there. This is not a topic that we need to protect these "kids" from, as it is likely they will get questions about it at some time from people they teach.

I saw a district of Elders outside of Panda Express last week and offered to buy them all lunch. I guess we all torture the Army of Helaman in our own way.

[Rosebud]

True, but at some point we just have to accept the choices made by adults. Everyone is more or less damaged, so nothing is ever really "fair."

Exactly.....

[ERCougar]

I understand that, Marsupial, but what are the missionaries supposed to do with the information Danimal gave them? Sit down with the questioning investigator and a copy of Compton's book and some apologetic responses and try to puzzle through the complexities of what we know and don't know? I am not being flippant, just trying to make a point. I can't imagine trying to prepare missionaries to deal with these controversial questions in much depth. They are taught to postpone discussion of such issues and re-direct the investigator to the BofM and to the "read ponder and pray" formula (along with attending church). In special cases there are ways to get into those subjects in depth.

I think you're right in that it's not very fair to bring these kinds of things up with them (from friendly ground). The difficulty for me comes in dealing with the complete surety that almost borders on arrogance that comes from these missionaries sometimes. Maybe it's Satan, maybe it's jealousy, but I find myself suppressing an impulse to shake up their worldview whenever I talk to people who seem so sure of everything, be it religious or political or whatever. Especially the unexperienced. I have a BIL who's returning from a mission in December and I'm anticipating some struggle here. I love the kid--he really is a good kid--but I can tell from his emails that I'm going to be biting my tongue a lot.

[marsupial]

I never had one investigator that asked those kinds of questions that really had any intent of changing religions; they simply liked a good discussion and to see how much they could make missionaries wiggle uncomfortably. They were not questions made in good faith.

For those that received a spiritual witness of the truth, the conversations centered on the gospel fundamentals.

So whether missionaries are properly equipped to handle these topics or not, as far as the business of teaching and baptizing goes, is largely irrelevant.

How long ago did you serve? During the age of the internet (and I mean in the last 10 years when literally everyone hopped onto the information superhighway)?

When I went out with the sisters awhile back, a well-read investigator alluded to Joseph Smith's philandering. The sisters had nothing to say to him about it. They were totally unaware. I answered the best way I could, which is that I don't approve of it and that it is something I have difficulty accepting, but that ultimately I feel like the church is where I need to be and that I like the direction the church has taken my life.

[wuapinmon]

I never had one investigator that asked those kinds of questions that really had any intent of changing religions; they simply liked a good discussion and to see how much they could make missionaries wiggle uncomfortably. They were not questions made in good faith.

For those that received a spiritual witness of the truth, the conversations centered on the gospel fundamentals.

So whether missionaries are properly equipped to handle these topics or not, as far as the business of teaching and baptizing goes, is largely irrelevant.

Bah! I hated being ambushed by an investigator and not knowing what they were talking about. If I had known about this before serving the mission, and a logical reason for these relationships to have occurred, then I could've answered better; the truth, no matter how ugly, is better than dissembling.

[marsupial]

I think you're right in that it's not very fair to bring these kinds of things up with them (from friendly ground). The difficulty for me comes in dealing with the complete surety that almost borders on arrogance that comes from these missionaries sometimes. Maybe it's Satan, maybe it's jealousy, but I find myself suppressing an impulse to shake up their worldview whenever I talk to people who seem so sure of everything, be it religious or political or whatever. Especially the unexperienced. I have a BIL who's returning from a mission in December and I'm anticipating some struggle here. I love the kid--he really is a good kid--but I can tell from his emails that I'm going to be biting my tongue a lot.

I think danimal can relate to you there.

I wouldn't have broached this issue with the elders. I have discussed it in a casual setting with my bishop, but usually I stick to DDD-style topics with the missionaries.

Are these elders now prepared to deal with this question? I don't know. But at least they won't be thrown totally off guard, if they get asked about it. They will at least know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist and won't try to vehemently deny it and look foolish doing so, if asked. Nonmembers tend to think that these Mormon emissaries are actually well-schooled in the church, its history and doctrine. Members know better.

[Indy Coug]

Bah! I hated being ambushed by an investigator and not knowing what they were talking about. If I had known about this before serving the mission, and a logical reason for these relationships to have occurred, then I could've answered better; the truth, no matter how ugly, is better than dissembling.

I'm not talking about being able to massage your ego so you won't feel so bad about knowing about it, I'm talking about it in terms of helping honest seekers of truth. It's my personal experience that people that steer the conversation in these directions have no interest in joining the church, even if they get a quality answer from an enlightened elder/sister.

[SeattleUte]

I never forgot something an uncle once told me before I went on my mission. He went to England and said that literature criticising Mormonism was common, even handed to the missionaries. He let his eyes skim over a couple of items, and quickly realized that if he allowed himself to become immersed in it he'd be quickly devoured. There would be no way he could retain his faith and personal commitment he needed to get through the emotional and physical rigors of a mission. He'd wind up going native or at sea on a merchant liner. It was probably good advice.