April 2020 General Conference - Global Pandemic Edition

[old_gregg]

For those of you interested, this is the essay from which Holland took his quotation about religious commitment being in decline. I liked this essay, as it mirrors many of my own thoughts.

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2019/12/59322/

I have not been on the board much lately and so apologize if this is redundant info.

this is intolerably smug and far more cynical and apocalyptic than whatever it is he's critiquing. maybe people derive a quiet hope from "a thin gruel of therapeutic deism." the tone of this is corrosive, and the fact that it was quoted at gc is embarrassing.

this may be the climax of the circlejerk:

Our cultured despisers livestream their abortions and fête themselves with galas and awards.

[creekster]

this is intolerably smug and far more cynical and apocalyptic than whatever it is he's critiquing. maybe people derive a quiet hope from "a thin gruel of therapeutic deism." the tone of this is corrosive, and the fact that it was quoted at gc is embarrassing.

this may be the climax of the circlejerk:

I didn't care for all of it, particularly because of its brevity it lacked any nuance (for example, condemning 'deism' is fairly meaningless without a bit more explanation) but I find it no more intolerably smug than, say, the tone of your response. The point of the essay is not to condemn, but to encourage an attitude of hope and quiet religious commitment. I did not find that very smug or embarrassing. But to each their own I suppose.

[Brian]

I had lunch with The Dude once in Provo.

He pointed out to me that, a lot of the time with church issues, we are all fired up about stuff that doesn't really matter.
He told me, in effect, that once a person lets go & stops worrying about the crap that doesn't matter in Mormonism, the church, religion, etc., it is a lot easier to start caring about the stuff that really matters - like helping other people and living a virtuous life. I takes a lot of confidence to live that way - to shrug off the nonsense and keep focused on the essentials. Most people are probably trying their best to do the right thing, and most of the time they deserve the benefit of the doubt (This probably applies to any organization or religion).

I apologize if I'm misremembering, Lebowski, but that's what I remember.

It was good advice, and I reflect upon it often.

The Dude Abides.

That's good advice. Thanks for sharing.
It reminds me of something that John Larsen says a lot on the Sunstone podcast. He says in effect, 'some post-mormons trade one kind of black and white thinking for another kind of black and white thinking'.

The ego is hard to kill.

[old_gregg]

I didn't care for all of it, particularly because of its brevity it lacked any nuance (for example, condemning 'deism' is fairly meaningless without a bit more explanation) but I find it no more intolerably smug than, say, the tone of your response. But to each their own I suppose.

"the entire world is falling around us, the godless are microwaving babies and making our kids trans, university professors are laughing at us and let their students lead more than 13th century dominican friars! but let's maintain a quiet (but not too quiet--can't let the world forget that the high priesthood of religious academia sits in judgment always) hope that god will descend in rage and glory and smite them."

[creekster]

"the entire world is falling around us, the godless are microwaving babies and making our kids trans, university professors are laughing at us and let their students lead more than 13th century dominican friars! but let's maintain a quiet (but not too quiet--can't let the world forget that the high priesthood of religious academia sits in judgment always) hope that god will descend in rage and glory and smite them."

"For those of us involved in the cultural and educational struggles of our time, the Psalmist gives good counsel. Yes, we are disturbed and troubled, but we are not prophets or saviors. It would be far, far better for us if we pondered and waited, prayed and offered our sacrifices, in a quieter trust than we sometimes display. It’s true that we ought not be entirely silent, we cannot in good conscience abdicate responsibility or abandon the vulnerable, but we can be quietly insistent, unrelenting in our efforts, because we have the essential virtue of hope.

My resolution for 2020 is to learn a quiet hope. It would do me well.

It might do many of us well."

And only mine is an actual quotation. Or perhaps you're quoting something else?

[old_gregg]

"For those of us involved in the cultural and educational struggles of our time, the Psalmist gives good counsel. Yes, we are disturbed and troubled, but we are not prophets or saviors. It would be far, far better for us if we pondered and waited, prayed and offered our sacrifices, in a quieter trust than we sometimes display. It’s true that we ought not be entirely silent, we cannot in good conscience abdicate responsibility or abandon the vulnerable, but we can be quietly insistent, unrelenting in our efforts, because we have the essential virtue of hope.

My resolution for 2020 is to learn a quiet hope. It would do me well.

It might do many of us well."

alone that is a nice sentiment, but it follows smug, melodramatic and judgmental "gasping and raging" that is the exact opposite of his prescription for how people ought to think and behave:

Many religious leaders [offer] a thin gruel of therapeutic deism, cheap symbolic activism, carefully couched heresy, and uninspiring nonsense instead of sound doctrine and right reason.

The schools and universities are adrift, apparently ignorant of their higher purposes, or outright hostile to them.

Libraries and primary schools promote perversion, celebrating disorder and confusion about sex and gender, all while beaming with self-congratulation and pride for destroying the innocence and well-being of their vulnerable charges.

Fertility has collapsed, as those without purpose or hope refuse the human project.

We continue to slaughter the unborn in the womb, with countless embryos discarded or frozen

Our cultured despisers livestream their abortions and fête themselves with galas and awards. Pornography warps the bodies and souls of the young.

it’s all too easy to conclude that ours is not the age of Pericles and Themistocles. Wordsworth could be writing of us that we are “a fen / Of stagnant waters: altar, sword, and pen. . . . / We are selfish men / Oh! raise us up, return to us again / And give us manners, virtue, freedom, power.”

The spiritually impoverished don’t recognize their poverty; in fact, they think they are awake, seeing farther and better than anyone else.

In their pretension, they gasp and rage, proclaiming wisdom while aghast that so few heed them. But in the poverty of their hopelessness, they risk becoming fools.

[Green Monstah]

The things I that stood out to me this conference:

1. Come Thou Fount. It gets me every time
2. The confidence they have that this will pass. I was struck by how fortunate we've been in my lifetime to not have to deal with epidemic and disease.
3. How glad I am that I don't invite non-members to watch conference. Even though it was the anniversary of the First Vision, I think we overemphasized the scoundrel/prophet, Joseph Smith.

[creekster]

alone that is a nice sentiment, but it follows smug, melodramatic and judgmental "gasping and raging" that is the exact opposite of his prescription for how people ought to think and behave:

I guess. It looks to me like you are purposefully misreading the point. The "gasping and raging" is precisely what the author condemns in the conclusion. IOW, the author agrees with you that gasping and raging is not helpful. It is a short essay, I encourage anyone who cares to read it themselves. I only posted it because I had wondered from where Holland pulled the quotation and, having found it, liked the essay enough to share with anyone else who might have wondered the same as me. If you are afraid of something that OG thinks is smug and melodramatic then, by all means, don't read it. Problem solved.

[Shaka]

I had lunch with The Dude once in Provo.

He pointed out to me that, a lot of the time with church issues, we are all fired up about stuff that doesn't really matter.
He told me, in effect, that once a person lets go & stops worrying about the crap that doesn't matter in Mormonism, the church, religion, etc., it is a lot easier to start caring about the stuff that really matters - like helping other people and living a virtuous life. I takes a lot of confidence to live that way - to shrug off the nonsense and keep focused on the essentials. Most people are probably trying their best to do the right thing, and most of the time they deserve the benefit of the doubt (This probably applies to any organization or religion).

I apologize if I'm misremembering, Lebowski, but that's what I remember.

It was good advice, and I reflect upon it often.

The Dude Abides.

That's excellent advice and pretty much the roadmap for what kept me in the church.

[Shaka]

I had a couple of family members raving about how cool the Hosannah Shout was. While I appreciate the nod to the past am I the only one who feels like this is a bit quirky and strange? Someone help me out here.

[Green Monstah]

I had a couple of family members raving about how cool the Hosannah Shout was. While I appreciate the nod to the past am I the only one who feels like this is a bit quirky and strange? Someone help me out here.

If it weren’t in unison, maybe it would be cool. But it is very odd.

[Jeff Lebowski]

If it weren’t in unison, maybe it would be cool. But it is very odd.

I love the symbolism of what it represents - recreating Christ's triumphal entry to Jerusalem. But the way we do it kind of ruins it. It is more of a mumble than a shout.

[Paperback Writer]

I had a couple of family members raving about how cool the Hosannah Shout was. While I appreciate the nod to the past am I the only one who feels like this is a bit quirky and strange? Someone help me out here.

You are not alone. It just didn't feel right to me but others' mileage will vary. It just seemed forced for lack of a better term. At first I thought it was because I was not there in person, but I participated in a similar event at the dedication of the Nauvoo temple that was a virtual experience and seemed more natural. Maybe because that has been traditionally part of temple dedications and not GC.

[SCcoug]

I love the symbolism of what it represents - recreating Christ's triumphal entry to Jerusalem. But the way we do it kind of ruins it. It is more of a mumble than a shout.

I agree. it's sort of a low key pet peeve of mine from all the temple dedications I've attended over the years which is why we shouted at my home.

[Eddie]

I agree. it's sort of a low key pet peeve of mine from all the temple dedications I've attended over the years which is why we shouted at my home.

Same - told my wife and kids "This is supposed to be a shout - I want to hear you SHOUTING it!"

Still a little anti-climactic that we're shouting while slowly waving a little hanky. But I do like the symbolism.