Whistleblower - Ensign Peak Advisors

[Art Vandelay]

Mormon twitter is aghast that the church would be stockpiling money with whatever the trending topic of the day is. This really surprises people?

FIFY

Personally, I would be a lot more concerned if the church did not have a significant endowment. Not only the need for rainy day, but considering the HUGE capital expenditures things like the Rome temple of SLC renovation cost, I want a large piggybank.

[Pelado]

The article seemed to say that the problem was not in the church stockpiling money, but that the stockpiling was happening in a separate legal entity with no charitable expenditures and possible distributions to for-profit companies. I would have thought that the evaluation would be made on a consolidated basis, which would make the allegations moot (other than the alleged distributions to Beneficial and City Creek).

Of course, the merits of the whistleblower claims have little to do with people's reactions. People will see what they want to see.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Actually if you run the numbers, it really isn’t. It is only about a 7% average annual return.

I thought this was way off but, sho 'nuff, that's essentially correct. The beauty of compound interest.

It's my understanding that throughout the first half of the 20th Century, and esp. right after WWII, the Church was in a very precarious financial situation. To help improve things, business types like Thorpe B. Isaacson and N. Eldon Tanner were called as GAs and were tasked with getting things on a firm financial footing. Looks like they magnified their callings.

[Moliere]

No surprise, but I don’t like the church stock piling massive liquid reserves as, to me, it seems like a lack of faith in the church’s part. $100b is more than a rainy day fund. However, I don’t really care anymore mostly since I don’t know anyone that has become rich working for serving in the church. It’s clearly not being stockpiled to pay exorbitant salaries to church leaders.

I’m more surprised that John Dehlin wasn’t the whistleblower. Dude loves money.

[RC Vikings]

No surprise, but I don’t like the church stock piling massive liquid reserves as, to me, it seems like a lack of faith in the church’s part. $100b is more than a rainy day fund. However, I don’t really care anymore mostly since I don’t know anyone that has become rich working for serving in the church. It’s clearly not being stockpiled to pay exorbitant salaries to church leaders.

I’m more surprised that John Dehlin wasn’t the whistleblower. Dude loves money.

I kinda feel the same way, if I found out the Salvation Army was sitting on $100 billion because they were worried about taking care of Christmas in the future I wouldn't toss anything in their bucket knowing people needed help this Christmas. It may be the smart thing to do but it really doesn't seem like the Christian thing to do.

[Katy Lied]

First, True Bluers dont give their money to the Church, they give it to God, and the Church holds it like a virtuous steward. Those who believe it is going to "the Church" are already on their way to apostacy.

Second, if $6B of $7B is paid every year toward Church expenses, this is included in the required spending for the Church to maintain tax exempt status. It doesn't have to go to charity, it has to go back to its members, and charity only if wanted.

If this were Scientology, every member would pay tithing, plus to cost to buy the land, plus the cost to build the chapel/temple, plus the cost to outfit the building plus furniture, supplies, heating fuel, etc. The Church buys all of this with its $6B annually. Scientology would get its tax exempt status revoked much much sooner than the Church, and we all know that aint gonna happen.

[Bo Diddley]

Mormon twitter is aghast that the church would be stockpiling money. This really surprises people?

Seriously. I assumed this was the case.

[Donuthole]

The biggest takeaway of all of this is that the church has more than enough money to pay to have the churches professionally cleaned. And it's not not really a takeaway, as we all knew that anyway. But seriously, we give up most of our Sunday and 10% of our income. Let's just pay someone to clean the building and clean it well. Because let's face it--the churches were a lot cleaner back when they were being cleaned by someone who was getting paid to do it.

/gripe

[LVAllen]

First, True Bluers dont give their money to the Church, they give it to God, and the Church holds it like a virtuous steward. Those who believe it is going to "the Church" are already on their way to apostacy.

Second, if $6B of $7B is paid every year toward Church expenses, this is included in the required spending for the Church to maintain tax exempt status. It doesn't have to go to charity, it has to go back to its members, and charity only if wanted.

If this were Scientology, every member would pay tithing, plus to cost to buy the land, plus the cost to build the chapel/temple, plus the cost to outfit the building plus furniture, supplies, heating fuel, etc. The Church buys all of this with its $6B annually. Scientology would get its tax exempt status revoked much much sooner than the Church, and we all know that aint gonna happen.

I think the sticky point legally (and mentioned by wapiti) is that the non-profit Ensign Peak has to distribute back to a charitable purpose in order to keep their own non-profit tax exemption. They can't rely on the Church's expenditures, because the Church is a separate legal entity, although the Church is affiliated with Ensign Peak. If they haven't been doing that, that may be problematic.

[wapiti]

I think the sticky point legally (and mentioned by wapiti) is that the non-profit Ensign Peak has to distribute back to a charitable purpose in order to keep their own non-profit tax exemption. They can't rely on the Church's expenditures, because the Church is a separate legal entity, although the Church is affiliated with Ensign Peak. If they haven't been doing that, that may be problematic.

With those kinds of resources, I would think the church has been getting solid legal advice on how to maintain the tax exempt status. That would be a massive error to miss required spending minimums and then turn around and have to pay $30 Billion or more in taxes.

I think the whistleblower is taking a hail mary at a big payday. It's been 3 months since he submitted his info to the IRS. Why go public now? Maybe things aren't going his way.

[MartyFunkhouser]

The biggest takeaway of all of this is that the church has more than enough money to pay to have the churches professionally cleaned. And it's not not really a takeaway, as we all knew that anyway. But seriously, we give up most of our Sunday and 10% of our income. Let's just pay someone to clean the building and clean it well. Because let's face it--the churches were a lot cleaner back when they were being cleaned by someone who was getting paid to do it.

/gripe

But you will appreciate the building so much more if you clean it.

This whole story gets a meh from me.

I did laugh at the church's PR paper and their spin on it.

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2019/12/17/21026103/the-washington-post-mormon-church-whistleblower-says-billions-thank-goodness

[RC Vikings]

The biggest takeaway of all of this is that the church has more than enough money to pay to have the churches professionally cleaned. And it's not not really a takeaway, as we all knew that anyway. But seriously, we give up most of our Sunday and 10% of our income. Let's just pay someone to clean the building and clean it well. Because let's face it--the churches were a lot cleaner back when they were being cleaned by someone who was getting paid to do it.

/gripe

If you had a nice custodian the gym was usually open after school also, because of the churches being locked up the kids have no where to turn now except porn and video games hence we are in the troubles we are because of trying to save a little money.

[creekster]

If you had a nice custodian the gym was usually open after school also, because of the churches being locked up the kids have no where to turn now except porn and video games hence we are in the troubles we are because of trying to save a little money.

If you are a kid that can't manage to track down a key to the chapel when you and your friends want to get in to play basketball then you have problems that go far beyond video games and porn.

[LVAllen]

With those kinds of resources, I would think the church has been getting solid legal advice on how to maintain the tax exempt status. That would be a massive error to miss required spending minimums and then turn around and have to pay $30 Billion or more in taxes.

I think the whistleblower is taking a hail mary at a big payday. It's been 3 months since he submitted his info to the IRS. Why go public now? Maybe things aren't going his way.

A 74-page narrative attached to the actual form screams fringe on the flag to me.

EDIT: Here's the 74-page narrative. It compares the Church to Thorin Oakenshield in The Hobbit. I'm not joking. Page 28. This is not a document intended for the IRS to consider. Its title is a reference to the CES letter for crying out loud.

https://www.scribd.com/document/439385879/Letter-to-an-IRS-Director

[falafel]

The biggest takeaway of all of this is that the church has more than enough money to pay to have the churches professionally cleaned. And it's not not really a takeaway, as we all knew that anyway. But seriously, we give up most of our Sunday and 10% of our income. Let's just pay someone to clean the building and clean it well. Because let's face it--the churches were a lot cleaner back when they were being cleaned by someone who was getting paid to do it.

/gripe

Let Desert Industries (or your local equivalent) do it. We have Opportunity Village clean our building. Seems like a no-brainer.