Let your light shine or Keep it on the DL?

[swampfrog]

How do you reconcile these two pieces of seemingly conflicting advice (commandments?) given by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, in practice? When do you think it's appropriate to show other people you're doing the right thing versus when it's not? I find this fascinating and I'd be curious to hear your different takes on it.

1. "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.." Matthew 5:14-16

2. Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven...But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly...(or) when thou prayest...enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." Matthew 6:1-6

There seem to be some omissions in the second quotation. There are some key phrases in both the quoted material and that represented by ellipsis:

"...do not your alms before men, to be seen of them." It doesn't directly say don't do your alms before men, it says that if you do, don't do it with the intent to be seen.

"...when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men." Again, do the alms, just don't announce it to the world.

"...love to pray in...synagogues...and in the streets, that they may be seen of men."

And continuing in the chapter:

"...use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

"...when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast."

The entire sermon is on avoiding getting caught up in the pride of the world. It also discusses very specific activities, it doesn't say hide all charitable activity or kindness. Giving alms refers specifically to providing money or goods for the needy--do that selflessly out of public view. Pray in private. Don't make a show of your fasting. The common theme is that these specific acts are meant to humble and sanctify man, by doing them publicly there is a real risk of pride intruding.

They are all different from acts which require public service to be rendered.

The analogy of the left and right hand is key. When possible, let the spiritual man work without the natural man knowing. Do not be afraid to be seen doing charitable acts, as others may be motivated by your example, but beware of the pride of being seen.

From Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

(3) Let not thy left hand know.—The phrase was probably proverbial, and indicates, in the form of free hyperbole, extremest secrecy. It is possible that there may be some reference to the practice of using the right hand in offering gifts at the altar. The symbolical application, though an afterthought, is yet suggestive. The “right hand” is the higher spiritual element in us that leads to acts of true charity, the “left” is the baser, self-seeking nature. We ought, as it were, to set a barrier between the two, as far as possible, i.e., to exclude that mingling of motives, which is at least the beginning of evil.

[Goatnapper'96]

Being coherent is overrated. Heck, I know an incoherent guy who got 62 million votes and will become President of the United States.

I could be wrong but somewhere there is a Liberal who wants to make sure you are aware that Hillary got more votes. So you see when the Republicans did what opposition parties are supposed to do they were being racists, undemocratic and unpatriotic as they put party before country but as Democrats are preparing to do what opposition parties do it is important to Liberals that they believe in their hearts of hearts that they have the moral highground because Hillary won the popular vote.

[Bigfoot is Cain]

If you were wealthy enough to donate large sums of money to a University to construct a building, would you have the building named after you?

If you were a public figure and you went to serve food at the homeless shelter, would you have full media coverage of your service?

On Christmas morning, do you take credit for all of the gifts that your children receive, or did Santa bring them?

Do you have a charitable organization in your name and use the funds to pay for impulsive mistakes?

[Katy Lied]

Do you have a charitable organization in your name and use the funds to pay for impulsive mistakes?

[taekwondave]

There seem to be some omissions in the second quotation. There are some key phrases in both the quoted material and that represented by ellipsis:

"...do not your alms before men, to be seen of them." It doesn't directly say don't do your alms before men, it says that if you do, don't do it with the intent to be seen.

"...when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men." Again, do the alms, just don't announce it to the world.

"...love to pray in...synagogues...and in the streets, that they may be seen of men."

And continuing in the chapter:

"...use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

"...when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast."

The entire sermon is on avoiding getting caught up in the pride of the world. It also discusses very specific activities, it doesn't say hide all charitable activity or kindness. Giving alms refers specifically to providing money or goods for the needy--do that selflessly out of public view. Pray in private. Don't make a show of your fasting. The common theme is that these specific acts are meant to humble and sanctify man, by doing them publicly there is a real risk of pride intruding.

They are all different from acts which require public service to be rendered.

The analogy of the left and right hand is key. When possible, let the spiritual man work without the natural man knowing. Do not be afraid to be seen doing charitable acts, as others may be motivated by your example, but beware of the pride of being seen.

From Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

Thank you. That was a really good take. I appreciated that.

[taekwondave]

If you were wealthy enough to donate large sums of money to a University to construct a building, would you have the building named after you?

If you were a public figure and you went to serve food at the homeless shelter, would you have full media coverage of your service?

On Christmas morning, do you take credit for all of the gifts that your children receive, or did Santa bring them?

Do you have a charitable organization in your name and use the funds to pay for impulsive mistakes?

Haha these are the kinds of scenarios I would have liked to discuss.

[BigFatMeanie]

If you were wealthy enough to donate large sums of money to a University to construct a building, would you have the building named after you?

If you were a public figure and you went to serve food at the homeless shelter, would you have full media coverage of your service?

On Christmas morning, do you take credit for all of the gifts that your children receive, or did Santa bring them?

Do you have a charitable organization in your name and use the funds to pay for impulsive mistakes?

Reminds me of that time Sean Penn got a boat to rescue people in the Katrina floods but he could only rescue one person at a time because the rest of the boat was reserved for his camera crew.

[Eddie]

...
If you were a public figure and you went to serve food at the homeless shelter, would you have full media coverage of your service?

This is a tough one. Are you bringing full media coverage to show what a great guy you are? Or are you doing it to bring attention to the program and encourage others to do the same? Because publicizing the need could result in more good than just showing up to do service yourself in the dark.

On Christmas morning, do you take credit for all of the gifts that your children receive, or did Santa bring them?

At my sister's house, Santa brings thinks like books, socks, and underwear. All of the really good stuff comes from Mom and Dad. Not necessarily because she wants to minimize Santa - as much as she wants the kids to know that she loves them and wants to be able to provide them with nice things.

[ByronMarchant]

How do you reconcile these two pieces of seemingly conflicting advice (commandments?) given by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, in practice? When do you think it's appropriate to show other people you're doing the right thing versus when it's not? I find this fascinating and I'd be curious to hear your different takes on it.

1. "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.." Matthew 5:14-16

2. Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven...But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly...(or) when thou prayest...enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." Matthew 6:1-6

I think what everyone is trying to tell you is that despite the fact that scriptures contradict themselves, you really shouldn't ask any insightful questions.

What's happening is that there are all kinds of people on this board who have not come to terms with the problems with their faith, and therefore they are afraid of questions like yours.

So they cope with their own profound insecurity by being rude to you.

[Commando]

I think what everyone is trying to tell you is that despite the fact that scriptures contradict themselves, you really shouldn't ask any insightful questions.

What's happening is that there are all kinds of people on this board who have not come to terms with the problems with their faith, and therefore they are afraid of questions like yours.

So they cope with their own profound insecurity by being rude to you.

Nailed it.

[ByronMarchant]

There are all kinds of people who use the Church to help other people, and that's great. But rather than attacking dissidents when they ask a good question, I think this board would be better served by having people try to debate a topic on the merits.

As an example: Jay Santos seems essentially like an atheist (correct me if I'm wrong), but he tends to function as a big Mormon attack dog if anyone acts too critical of the Church. Reminds me of my mother for all the world. I don't get it. Instead of telling Dave to get his ex-mo stuff out of here, why don't he and others make an attempt to discuss the topic on the merits?

What this board really needs is Mike Waters.

In any case, I feel like CougarStadium has degenerated into the Mormon version of Lord of the Flies. But I can't quite decide who is Piggy and who is Ralph.

[Commando]

There are all kinds of people who use the Church to help other people, and that's great. But rather than attacking dissidents when they ask a good question, I think this board would be better served by having people try to debate a topic on the merits.

As an example: Jay Santos seems essentially like an atheist (correct me if I'm wrong), but he tends to function as a big Mormon attack dog if anyone acts too critical of the Church. Reminds me of my mother for all the world. I don't get it. Instead of telling Dave to get his ex-mo stuff out of here, why don't he and others make an attempt to discuss the topic on the merits?

What this board really needs is Mike Waters.

In any case, I feel like CougarStadium has degenerated into the Mormon version of Lord of the Flies. But I can't quite decide who is Piggy and who is Ralph.

I know you'll definitely keep us posted once you decide.

[Jeff Lebowski]

So they cope with their own profound insecurity by being rude to you.

OK. So why are you rude?

[ByronMarchant]

OK. So why are you rude?

Look at this thread and how everyone attacked Dave.

Dave is asking a fair, insightful question. This board has become absolutely pitiful with how the apologist types immediately issue ad hominem attacks against anyone who asks insightful questions that are even slightly critical of the Church.

I have posted things comparing Mormonism to Scientology here, and people my consider that "rude." But I honestly think that Mormonism and Scientology have a lot in common. Some people may find that rude, but I don't mean it that way. I'm mostly fascinated by the comparison.

My exit from the Church started with a vacation from the Church, and eventually I came to feel that I had woken up from a bad dream. That's my experience, and I fully accept that others may have a completely opposite experience and that is no more or less valid than my own experience, but that shouldn't invalidate my view or my opportunitiy to express my view in a forum.

People justify so many things on all sides of this issue.

But if you think it's rude of me to criticize a plainly anti-gay, discriminatory Church to which I gave so many years of my life, I would may take it as a compliment. It reminds me of this Naomi Shulman quote:

"Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than politics. They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.” -Naomi Shulman

Think of how this general principle applies to all the nice Mormons who have, over the decades, quietly looked the other way as blacks and gays were mistreated by their Church. There is no virtue in silently looking the other way.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Look at this thread and how everyone attacked Dave.

Dave is asking a fair, insightful question. This board has become absolutely pitiful with how the apologist types immediately issue ad hominem attacks against anyone who asks insightful questions that are even slightly critical of the Church.

I have posted things comparing Mormonism to Scientology here, and people my consider that "rude." But I honestly think that Mormonism and Scientology have a lot in common. Some people may find that rude, but I don't mean it that way. I'm mostly fascinated by the comparison.

My exit from the Church started with a vacation from the Church, and eventually I came to feel that I had woken up from a bad dream. That's my experience, and I fully accept that others may have a completely opposite experience and that is no more or less valid than my own experience, but that shouldn't invalidate my view or my opportunitiy to express my view in a forum.

People justify so many things on all sides of this issue.

But if you think it's rude of me to criticize a plainly anti-gay, discriminatory Church to which I gave so many years of my life, I would may take it as a compliment. It reminds me of this Naomi Shulman quote:

"Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than politics. They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.” -Naomi Shulman

Think of how this general principle applies to all the nice Mormons who have, over the decades, quietly looked the other way as blacks and gays were mistreated by their Church. There is no virtue in silently looking the other way.

Nazis. Haha.