Just wanted to give '71 another reason to complain about the Honor Code

[Jeff Lebowski]

And then progress happened.

Why do you do this?

[Bo Diddley]

What's worse, a mustacheless beard or a beardless mustache?

brigham-young.jpg

Mustacheless beard FTW!

[Jeff Lebowski]

You have much more to account for than I. You're an extremely intelligent person tasked with educating young, impressionable minds, and you have no compunction when it comes to filling those impressionable minds with abject foolishness.

Log off, amigo. You are drunk.

[Non Sequitur]

Log off, amigo. You are drunk.

I'm not drunk, but I'm aggressively headed there. I still stand by everything I said. I'll review it in the morning, though.

[Donuthole]

Log off, amigo. You are drunk.

Lol. I had the nearly the exact same thought when I read his last post. Only I thought a different word than “log”.

Sober up and we’ll be here for your apology tomorrow, NS. Don’t get behind the wheel tonight.

[Non Sequitur]

Lol. I had the nearly the exact same thought when I read his last post. Only I thought a different word than “log”.

Sober up and we’ll be here for your apology tomorrow, NS. Don’t get behind the wheel tonight.

There will be no apologies from me. I did not call you an asshole. I would never do that. Whatever my faults, I am practiced in decorum. I will, however, accept YOUR apology in advance.

[Donuthole]

There will be no apologies from me. I did not call you an asshole. I would never do that. Whatever my faults, I am practiced in decorum. I will, however, accept YOUR apology in advance.

Nah. You’re being an asshole. I won’t apologize for calling you on it. There is nothing tasteful or seemly about what you said to JL. Doesn’t matter if you said it nicely or with the sincerest of beliefs.

[jay santos]

I have a few thoughts.
1. NS might have been a little over-the-top, but the language seemed a little more --trying to think of the right word--cultish no--maybe the right worse is "Nelsony"?) Is it me getting more cynical or does it feel like the Church has trended in the opposite direction compared to the trending of the Hinckley-Monson era to become more--again non-culty is the wrong word--but it's just something about the overuse of "Savior/Jesus/" or something about trending less secular or secular-friendly than we were before?
2. Bummer you can't have a beard. Ten years ago I would have bet money that policy wouldn't last ten more years. It's fine to be 20 years behind social norms but 40, 50 years? You know it can't go like this forever. There was about a 30 year time period in human history beards were a signal for rebelliousness.
3. Is the LGBT policy the same or did that get stricter? I can't recall if LGBT kissing and hand holding was against the Honor Code earlier. And also, why not just spell it out one way or the other?
4. I'm nervous about backlash from LGBT community and supporters over this. I can predict a shiz storm on this. You can say all you want, it's no different than before but in the society we live in, every year that goes by the heat on this issue increases.

[Bo Diddley]

I have a few thoughts.
1. NS might have been a little over-the-top, but the language seemed a little more --trying to think of the right word--cultish no--maybe the right worse is "Nelsony"?) Is it me getting more cynical or does it feel like the Church has trended in the opposite direction compared to the trending of the Hinckley-Monson era to become more--again non-culty is the wrong word--but it's just something about the overuse of "Savior/Jesus/" or something about trending less secular or secular-friendly than we were before?
2. Bummer you can't have a beard. Ten years ago I would have bet money that policy wouldn't last ten more years. It's fine to be 20 years behind social norms but 40, 50 years? You know it can't go like this. There was about a 30 year time period in human history beards were a signal for rebelliousness.
3.Is the LGBT policy the same or did that get stricter? I can't recall if LGBT kissing and hand holding was against the Honor Code earlier. And also, why not just spell it out one or the other?
4. I'm nervous about backlash from LGBT community and supporters over this. I can predict a shiz storm on this. You can say all you want, it's no different than before but in the society we live in, every year that goes by the heat on this issue increases.

Yes, I think so.

[Non Sequitur]

Nah. You’re being an asshole. I won’t apologize for calling you on it. There is nothing tasteful or seemly about what you said to JL. Doesn’t matter if you said it nicely or with the sincerest of beliefs.

JL doesn't need you to come to his defense. I have more respect for JL than just about anyone else on this site. I agree with 90% of what he says and admire that he takes many brave positions. I applaud that. There's this corner of his beliefs, though, that puzzles me. Maybe I should ignore it, but it's hard to do because I'm passionate about what people accept as truth and what people accept as potential truth. When I'm at dinner with the in-laws, I have no problem with maybe-truth, but when it comes to an elite University education, I expect more. And for the record DH, I do not think you're an asshole. I like you.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Are you really trying to have this discussion on a BYU sports message board? C'mon, man. Your issues with the Church aside, you can't seriously be taken aback by anything in that press release. Just because you want the church to change more than you ever have doesn't mean it's going to change the way you want it to. Your comments insinuating that there is questionable validity to a BYU education aren't exactly in good faith. Stop being an ignorant asshole.

Listen they can say Savior this and Savior that all they want without bothering me. I'm not taken aback. However, as long as they restrict beards, eff them.

For the record I'm not drunk, I'm high.

[Donuthole]

JL doesn't need you to come to his defense. I have more respect for JL than just about anyone else on this site. I agree with 90% of what he says and admire that he takes many brave positions. I applaud that. There's this corner of his beliefs, though, that puzzles me. Maybe I should ignore it, but it's hard to do because I'm passionate about what people accept as truth and what people accept as potential truth. When I'm at dinner with the in-laws, I have no problem with maybe-truth, but when it comes to an elite University education, I expect more. And for the record DH, I do not think you're an asshole. I like you.

I like you too. Hence the “c’mon man” in my post. because you are better than that. But the fact that I like you doesn’t mean you’re not being an asshole about this.

And sure, JL is certainly capable of defending himself, but that doesn’t mean others can’t call you out for being unreasonable. I don’t even disagree completely that the spiritual rhetoric can get a bit overdone with BYU, especially under RMN (I’m certainly very on record about disagreeing with a lot of his chosen vernacular). But in the last 4 hours you have either expressly stated or insinuated that 1) the Church is a cult; 2) anyone who believes in God is a lunatic who has her head buried in the sand; 3) BYU and its professors are knowingly and intentionally gaslighting their students; and 4) you are smarter than any educated person who can reconcile membership in the Church.

[All-American]

Nelsony

You didn’t think that maybe just maybe this was not the right word choice here?

[MartyFunkhouser]

You didn’t think that maybe just maybe this was not the right word choice here?

I wouldn't have chosen that word.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Listen, I don't think the LDS church is a cult. I don't think that believing in God makes you stupid. I think it is fine to have religion at a university. Also, I think BYU is a discriminatory institution and should be viewed as such.

All that said, if you can't laugh at this paragraph and recognize it is just straight up nonsense, I don't know what to say. Sorry if I'm being an asshole donuthole, you know who I am.

"CES conducted focus groups at several of its institutions to gather input from students in the development of these changes. Students were enthusiastic and expressed their feelings that a focus on the Savior, combined with an emphasis on principles and expectations, would elevate dress, grooming, and behavior as students become more intentional and take increased ownership for dress and grooming decisions."