Just wanted to give '71 another reason to complain about the Honor Code

[Jeff Lebowski]

Funk, do you ever have moments of peace in your life? Seems like you are constantly outraged at something. Must be a miserable way to live.

[cougjunkie]

The term social justice warrior is so fucking offensive and it is really disheartening to see someone I like and respect use it. It is one thing when an awful human being like old_gregg uses it, but you, that surprises me. It is the phrase thrown around by people that threaten rape of women online, DOX people, etc. It is such a dismissive phrase when real issues are raised, and this BYU thing is a real issue no matter what side you fall on. Your own president has acknowledged it is an issue. I know for a fact that you are much better than that.

This issue really isn't that complex. If you insist on keeping the honor code, there are 2 approaches that you can take:

1) Amnesty. This approach encourages victims of sexual assault to report. It also will increase false allegations of sexual assault as a means to try to get out of a honor code investigation.

2) No Amnesty. It limits the instances of false allegations of sexual assault. Students will know that claiming rape won't immediate get them out of an honor code investigation. It allows those that do commit rape, both students and non-students, to keep the tool of silencing their victim by threatening an honor code report.

I much prefer the option that removes a rapist tool to silence victims. I understand that it will result in more false allegations, but I think the risk of that is overstated. The risk associated with false allegations far outweighs the way the other approach enables rapists.

I like PC Bros better.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Funk, do you ever have moments of peace in your life? Seems like you are constantly outraged at something. Must be a miserable way to live.

Some people lack even a measure of nuance on topics. This issue is fraught with nuance, which both the HCO and Funk do not seem to grasp.

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[Jarid in Cedar]

I like PC Bros better.

Is this the same as PC Principal on South Park?

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[Jeff Lebowski]

Is this the same as PC Principal on South Park?

[old_gregg]

The term social justice warrior is so fucking offensive and it is really disheartening to see someone I like and respect use it. It is one thing when an awful human being like old_gregg uses it, but you, that surprises me. It is the phrase thrown around by people that threaten rape of women online, DOX people, etc. It is such a dismissive phrase when real issues are raised, and this BYU thing is a real issue no matter what side you fall on. Your own president has acknowledged it is an issue. I know for a fact that you are much better than that.

This issue really isn't that complex. If you insist on keeping the honor code, there are 2 approaches that you can take:

1) Amnesty. This approach encourages victims of sexual assault to report. It also will increase false allegations of sexual assault as a means to try to get out of a honor code investigation.

2) No Amnesty. It limits the instances of false allegations of sexual assault. Students will know that claiming rape won't immediate get them out of an honor code investigation. It allows those that do commit rape, both students and non-students, to keep the tool of silencing their victim by threatening an honor code report.

I much prefer the option that removes a rapist tool to silence victims. I understand that it will result in more false allegations, but I think the risk of that is overstated. The risk associated with false allegations far outweighs the way the other approach enables rapists.

awful human being?

[wuapinmon]

That we have a system wherein a woman would even consider falsely accusing someone of RAPE to avoid getting kicked out of school demonstrates how truly pathological the Honor Code is.

[Bo Diddley]

That we have a system wherein a woman would even consider falsely accusing someone of RAPE to avoid getting kicked out of school demonstrates how truly pathological the Honor Code is.

I don't see how you can pin that on the Honor Code. I think this more likely demonstrates the depravity of people in general. A person who would falsely accuse someone of rape is no better than a rapist. They are both inflicting unconscionable psychological damage on another.

[falafel]

It isn't a hole in her story. She was raised in a home/religion that frankly does a horrible job teaching consent. The focus with sexual education is on don't have sex before marriage. What doesn't get taught is what actual consent to sexual contact requires. It is not unreasonable to think that she didn't understand that she could have been sexually assaulted and not realized it was sexual assault.

You're blaming this all on the church for not teaching her (allegedly) what consent means? Is that even a gospel topic? You mention her home, and that's where this should stay. There's no reason to haul the church into this.

Good thing you're not an ex-mo, so we at least know that your intentions are good.

[wuapinmon]

I don't see how you can pin that on the Honor Code. I think this more likely demonstrates the depravity of people in general. A person who would falsely accuse someone of rape is no better than a rapist. They are both inflicting unconscionable psychological damage on another.

Certainly there are normal people who do depraved things because of outside influences. And, there are laws that seek to punish those pathological outside influences (selling alcohol to minors, inciting to riot, etc.). I'm not saying that the HC needs to be punished legally, but when something causes people to break the law in depraved ways that they likely would not do otherwise, then something is amiss and needs to be rectified. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's....the HC should be about academics and campus life. Let the spiritual stuff be between the student, God, and his/her judge in Israel.

[falafel]

The conditional amnesty that NWC refers to is a balanced approach that I could support.

Sorry, there are only two options here, and that isn't one of them.

[kccougar]

You're blaming this all on the church for not teaching her (allegedly) what consent means? Is that even a gospel topic? You mention her home, and that's where this should stay. There's no reason to haul the church into this.

Good thing you're not an ex-mo, so we at least know that your intentions are good.

It is a good thing he let us know he isn't ex-mo so we don't make a silly assumption based on his life's premise - that the Church is basically the heart of all evil in the world.

[falafel]

It is a good thing he let us know he isn't ex-mo so we don't make a silly assumption based on his life's premise - that the Church is basically the heart of all evil in the world.

And he's told us that multiple times, so we have no reason to dispute it.

[MartyFunkhouser]

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[MartyFunkhouser]

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