It's OK to resign.

[Solon]

Solon:



From your past postings, it seemed you tended toward agnosticism. Are you merely making the academic argument or is there something that makes you now believe there is some non-human influence in the BoM? Not intending to offend.

No offense taken, old friend.

I don't feel particularly inspired when I read the Book of Mormon. But my wife does, and I respect and value her thoughts.

I think it's unlikely that Joseph Smith made the whole thing up ex nihil (note: I don't decline nihil to nihilo. Meaning "nothing", it's indeclinable) - it's a complicated book and I suspect that whoever wrote/compiled/translated it had some exposure to a classical education, as well as knowledge of important political & theological debates of the early 1800s (things that I don't really give Joseph Smith credit for, maybe unfairly, but still that's my opinion). In addition, Joseph Smith doesn't seem to have been particularly aware of the contents of the Book of Mormon - he rarely alludes to it, let alone cites or quotes it in his later writings.

But that leaves a whole lot of possibilities out there for a purely human source.
Of course, those humans could have been guided by a divine hand (who am I to know?).

I am indeed agnostic - open minded to the possibilities and am generally respectful (and just a little jealous) of people's faith.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I would have never imagined that this thread would be worth reading. Thanks to the thoughtful contributors.

I think we all need to thank Byron to starting a thoughtful, faith-promoting thread.

[Topper]

No offense taken, old friend.

I don't feel particularly inspired when I read the Book of Mormon. But my wife does, and I respect and value her thoughts.

I think it's unlikely that Joseph Smith made the whole thing up ex nihil (note: I don't decline nihil to nihilo. Meaning "nothing", it's indeclinable) - it's a complicated book and I suspect that whoever wrote/compiled/translated it had some exposure to a classical education, as well as knowledge of important political & theological debates of the early 1800s (things that I don't really give Joseph Smith credit for, maybe unfairly, but still that's my opinion). In addition, Joseph Smith doesn't seem to have been particularly aware of the contents of the Book of Mormon - he rarely alludes to it, let alone cites or quotes it in his later writings.

But that leaves a whole lot of possibilities out there for a purely human source.
Of course, those humans could have been guided by a divine hand (who am I to know?).

I am indeed agnostic - open minded to the possibilities and am generally respectful (and just a little jealous) of people's faith.

Thank you. It has been a long time since I saw you in Vegas. Drop by.

[Bo Diddley]

I think we all need to thank Byron to starting a thoughtful, faith-promoting thread.

Yes, his first post and he hits a home run (in the park home run). And all I did was make fun with my sarcastic response.

[falafel]

Thank you. It has been a long time since I saw you in Vegas. Drop by.

I think you mean Allendale County, SC.

[Solon]

I think you mean Allendale County, SC.

topper is a citizen of the world.

[SeattleUte]

No offense taken, old friend.

I don't feel particularly inspired when I read the Book of Mormon. But my wife does, and I respect and value her thoughts.

I think it's unlikely that Joseph Smith made the whole thing up ex nihil (note: I don't decline nihil to nihilo. Meaning "nothing", it's indeclinable) - it's a complicated book and I suspect that whoever wrote/compiled/translated it had some exposure to a classical education, as well as knowledge of important political & theological debates of the early 1800s (things that I don't really give Joseph Smith credit for, maybe unfairly, but still that's my opinion). In addition, Joseph Smith doesn't seem to have been particularly aware of the contents of the Book of Mormon - he rarely alludes to it, let alone cites or quotes it in his later writings.

But that leaves a whole lot of possibilities out there for a purely human source.
Of course, those humans could have been guided by a divine hand (who am I to know?).

I am indeed agnostic - open minded to the possibilities and am generally respectful (and just a little jealous) of people's faith.

Thanks, I agree. Though I don't entirely agree with the last sentence.

[SteelBlue]

David Foster Wallace summed it up well in his This is Water speech although then he killed himself I suppose.

I love that speech.

[TripletDaddy]

Solon is hot.

[old_gregg]

David Foster Wallace summed it up well in his This is Water speech although then he killed himself I suppose.

I love that speech.

this is one of my favorite dfw bits about suicide that always comes to mind when i read this is water:

The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

[Topper]

this is one of my favorite dfw bits about suicide that always comes to mind when i read this is water:

Excellent expression.

[Pelado]

Solon:



From your past postings, it seemed you tended toward agnosticism. Are you merely making the academic argument or is there something that makes you now believe there is some non-human influence in the BoM? Not intending to offend.

No offense taken, old friend.

I don't feel particularly inspired when I read the Book of Mormon. But my wife does, and I respect and value her thoughts.

I think it's unlikely that Joseph Smith made the whole thing up ex nihil (note: I don't decline nihil to nihilo. Meaning "nothing", it's indeclinable) - it's a complicated book and I suspect that whoever wrote/compiled/translated it had some exposure to a classical education, as well as knowledge of important political & theological debates of the early 1800s (things that I don't really give Joseph Smith credit for, maybe unfairly, but still that's my opinion). In addition, Joseph Smith doesn't seem to have been particularly aware of the contents of the Book of Mormon - he rarely alludes to it, let alone cites or quotes it in his later writings.

But that leaves a whole lot of possibilities out there for a purely human source.
Of course, those humans could have been guided by a divine hand (who am I to know?).

I am indeed agnostic - open minded to the possibilities and am generally respectful (and just a little jealous) of people's faith.

There have been some textual studies done on the BoM over the years. My recollection was that the "voice" of the BoM was most like Oliver Cowdery.

[SteelBlue]

this is one of my favorite dfw bits about suicide that always comes to mind when i read this is water:

That was from one of the stories in "Brief Interviews with Hideous Men", right?

[cougjunkie]

Thanks, I agree. Though I don't entirely agree with the last sentence.

Totally agree, the last sentence is déclassé'.

[Blueintheface]

I resigned with BYU following the mission. Great school. Great education. Why wouldn't I have?