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  • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
    I'll agree that the Apostasy section of the brief were good from a contextual standpoint. The part where she pointed out the gender bias in the whole process will be effective from a PR standpoint for the progmos. The media will likely report on this as a patriarchal heavy process that is defending itself (rules set up by men that unfairly punish a woman that is trying to level the playing field for women). Just the optics of a group of men kicking out Kelly is bad enough. It would be like a group of white men in 1970 kicking out a black man that is lobbying for the PH.
    It would be like telling a (white) scoutmaster that his African American scouts could not be the senior patrol and assistant senior patrol leaders...

    African Linage and the Priesthood


    In the early 1970s, my uncle, Byron Marchant, was a young returned missionary from France, who was starting his new family with my aunt Gladys in an old red brick home on 500 East, across the street from Liberty Park. Byron had been the tennis pro at the park, and he loved the neighborhood. He was called to be the Liberty Ward scoutmaster. Unlike most wards along the Wasatch Front, the population living within the geographical boundaries of Liberty Ward was poor and heavily minority. Byron had encouraged both member and nonmember boys, alike, to join the Liberty Ward scouting program. His troop’s senior patrol and assistant senior patrol leaders were both of African decent.


    The Church announced a new policy with regard to the Boy Scouts. Ward deacon quorum presidencies were also to occupy the scout troop leadership positions. This meant that the top two leaders in his troop would be banned from holding any leadership positions in the troop. Convinced that this new policy simply overlooked the unusual demographics of the Liberty Ward, Byron began to climb the ladder of the Church hierarchy looking for a sympathetic ear. He was convinced that if they listened, they would make an exception for his troop. From bishop to the First Presidency, there were no sympathetic ears. Rather there were rejections and strong warnings that his pleas could result in his excommunication.


    These warnings were prophetic. In October of 1977, Byron raised his voice from the balcony of the Tabernacle during a conference session. He voted no, and declared that he could no longer sustain the Brethren. Shortly after, he was excommunicated. Eight months latter, President Kimball announced to the world that the Lord had spoken. Male members of African ancestry could now hold the priesthood. The announcement came on a day in June 1978, when I was in the Language Training Mission (now the MTC), preparing to leave on my mission to Japan. Despite all of the prior church opposition to black ordination, when the announcement came, new missionaries, myself included, were running through the halls, shouting and celebrating this glorious revelation.


    Looking back on the sacrifices of my grandmother, mother and uncle, it has been a great blessing to be surrounded by people who were willing to do what is right in the face of great opposition and personal sacrifice.
    http://ordainwomen.org/raised-a-mormon-feminist/

    Byron Marchant was excommunicated and also lost his job as a LDS chapel janitor. The NAACP sued the LDS church for discrimination and subpoenaed SWK to appear in federal court. Shortly before the court date the church changed it policy so a young man other than the president of the deacons quorum could be senior patrol leader.

    On the bright side, if enough women come to the conclusion that they are second-class members in the church and leave it may balance out the ratio of single women to men in the church. Then maybe the church could get rid of doctrine of (eternal) polygamy since their would be no need.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Surfah View Post
      I didn't read the brief. 16 pages isn't really brief.
      Lol. 16 pages is usually one of the shorter things I'll read on any given day. 30+ is pretty standard for simple things.
      Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Surfah View Post
        It depends on the topic.
        Here is what her inquisitors are saying.
        When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

        --Jonathan Swift

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pheidippides View Post
          Lol. 16 pages is usually one of the shorter things I'll read on any given day. 30+ is pretty standard for simple things.
          Cool.
          "Nobody listens to Turtle."
          -Turtle
          sigpic

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Pheidippides View Post
            Lol. 16 pages is usually one of the shorter things I'll read on any given day. 30+ is pretty standard for simple things.
            And this is why our legal system is so out of whack when it comes to costs. I wonder how much productivity this country loses because of this kind of legal stuff. Anyone ever read a prospectus from cover to cover? Those things should be "cover your ass" documents.


            This is the perception I have and I realize not being in the legal field my perception could be wrong.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by byu71 View Post
              And this is why our legal system is so out of whack when it comes to costs. I wonder how much productivity this country loses because of this kind of legal stuff. Anyone ever read a prospectus from cover to cover? Those things should be "cover your ass" documents.


              This is the perception I have and I realize not being in the legal field my perception could be wrong.
              So we see that the initial negative reaction to this brief by some turns out to be a species of the same old anti-intellectualism.

              Lawyers and their "turgid" briefs are all that stand between you and Putin, my friend.
              When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

              --Jonathan Swift

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                So we see that the initial negative reaction to this brief by some turns out to be a species of the same old anti-intellectualism.

                Lawyers and their "turgid" briefs are all that stand between you and Putin, my friend.
                lol
                A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. - Mohammad Ali

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post

                  Lawyers and their "turgid" briefs are all that stand between you and Putin, my friend.
                  Thank goodness then 57 out of 100 Senators have law backgrounds. Isn't the current President a lawyer?

                  I appreciate their standing between me and Putin.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Pheidippides View Post
                    Lol. 16 pages is usually one of the shorter things I'll read on any given day. 30+ is pretty standard for simple things.
                    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                      Thank goodness then 57 out of 100 Senators have law backgrounds. Isn't the current President a lawyer?

                      I appreciate their standing between me and Putin.
                      I was just thinking this morning that the problems in Crimea could have been avoided if there were just more Crimean lawyers. Darn shame. At least I can sleep easy knowing that this site will never fall under the reign of Putin.
                      A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. - Mohammad Ali

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                        So we see that the initial negative reaction to this brief by some turns out to be a species of the same old anti-intellectualism.

                        Lawyers and their "turgid" briefs are all that stand between you and Putin, my friend.
                        Yeah, lawyers are necessary and important when you need them, like hemorrhoid cream.
                        "The mind is not a boomerang. If you throw it too far it will not come back." ~ Tom McGuane

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Non Sequitur View Post
                          Yeah, lawyers are necessary and important when you need them, like hemorrhoid cream.
                          I've been necessary and important to a lot of my clients- much like hemorrhoid cream. Others- not so much. They only hired me so that I could be there at trial to soothe them, even though I advised them that there was little I could do to cure their case-- I guess that's like hemorrhoid cream, as well.
                          "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                            yes, I have come to an opinion on this already. I wish i could be as objective as you. of course, then my claim of pulling over to the side of the road in tears of joy when the gender ban is reversed would be a little hollow. let me know how believable your claim comes across.
                            denying women the priesthood is definitely out of pure sexism and hate and most definitely comparable to having christ executed. or something

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                              I was hoping to wake up to a verdict but now we have to wait a few more days. I guess that is a good thing in the scheme of things.

                              Even if she doesn't get exed and is put on formal probation or disfellowshipped it'll likely be permanent as I bet one stipulation will be to take down the site and I doubt she does that.
                              I think a curve ball will be thrown and her informal probation will be upgraded.

                              http://youtu.be/vVXEQ8hjyGI
                              Last edited by BrutusBuckeye; 06-23-2014, 10:24 AM. Reason: fix link
                              When things are at their darkest, it's a brave man that can kick back and party. --Tuck Pendleton

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                                SU likes the entire brief because like the CES letter (which isn't nearly as well written), it will go down as one of these touchstone documents that exmos will go back to to remind themselves why they're right, much like spiritual experiences and the BOM function for members. It was inflammatory, but it's also a fairly complete dressing down of the entire affair. Unfortunately for Kelly, that may lead to her undoing.

                                My prediction: disfellowshipment with conditions she'll never meet. It's the kind of lukewarm response I've come to expect. Carries out the purpose while washing blood from hands. Sad that we now emulate Pilate.
                                Don't stop there! Tell us who the Jews are in this allegory!! Who is Judas?! The Romans? Good stuff!
                                "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

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