Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

[Non Sequitur]

Yes - I'm Gary Puckett from the Union Gap. I've laid hints about my true identity for 12 years - but you're the first one to nail me. Congrats.

Gary, when you were 9 years old you looked very much like Tim Roth.

[clackamascoug]

Shush - don't let anyone know you and I are the same age.

[Paperback Writer]

I've found this whole discussion interesting, even fascinating. However, I'm convinced more than ever that as a people, we are far from ready to live the Law of Consecration. Brother Joseph was one progressive thinker. This is not to be taken as criticism because I'm not ready to join the United Order anytime soon.

[Northwestcoug]

They got super rich the exact same way they got rich. How could you hinder the former without hindering the latter?

I do not think the amount of blood, sweat, and tears that gets you your first millions is the same that gets you your next multi-millions. The opportunities the tax and banking systems that are afforded someone with that amount of cash make it that much easier to increase wealth. Whether or not that is a good thing overall is debatable. I'm fully aware that returning to a marginal tax rate of ~90% would do some damage to the economy. But I think that damage is overshadowed by the benefits of increased taxation. And honestly, I would hope it would lead to less overall greed. Kind of a gestalt thing I know.

[old_gregg]

I do not think the amount of blood, sweat, and tears that gets you your first millions is the same that gets you your next multi-millions. The opportunities the tax and banking systems that are afforded someone with that amount of cash make it that much easier to increase wealth. Whether or not that is a good thing overall is debatable. I'm fully aware that returning to a marginal tax rate of ~90% would do some damage to the economy. But I think that damage is overshadowed by the benefits of increased taxation. And honestly, I would hope it would lead to less overall greed. Kind of a gestalt thing I know.

can we talk about what specific tax and banking opportunities you’re talking about here? because i can assure you that, as more money is involved, tax planning and banking problems get much more complex and important.

[Non Sequitur]

I've found this whole discussion interesting, even fascinating. However, I'm convinced more than ever that as a people, we are far from ready to live the Law of Consecration. Brother Joseph was one progressive thinker. This is not to be taken as criticism because I'm not ready to join the United Order anytime soon.

If Joseph Smith were alive today, he would not be followed by a significant portion of the Church. If RMN is too progressive for a lot of mormons, good luck getting them to sign off on Joseph Smith.

[Northwestcoug]

can we talk about what specific tax and banking opportunities you’re talking about here? because i can assure you that, as more money is involved, tax planning and banking problems get much more complex and important.

I can't, at least not those available to the super rich. I can, however, assume that the same opportunities afforded me to increase my wealth are had in abundance by the super rich. And the amount I have to pay for tax planning and banking issues isn't a lot relatively speaking. Even when a lawyer had to get involved. Maybe once you're super rich it's all so complex and expensive that you only slog on because of sheer entrepreneurial doggedness. But come on, let's be reasonable. It's just easier to make money when you already have money.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I can't, at least not those available to the super rich. I can, however, assume that the same opportunities afforded me to increase my wealth are had in abundance by the super rich. And the amount I have to pay for tax planning and banking issues isn't a lot relatively speaking. Even when a lawyer had to get involved. Maybe once you're super rich it's all so complex and expensive that you only slog on because of sheer entrepreneurial doggedness. But come on, let's be reasonable. It's just easier to make money when you already have money.

Now you are moving the goalposts. First it was "most people don't have the opportunity to become billionaires". Now it seems to be "once someone becomes a millionaire, it is too easy to become a billionaire."

[Paperback Writer]

I do not think the amount of blood, sweat, and tears that gets you your first millions is the same that gets you your next multi-millions. The opportunities the tax and banking systems that are afforded someone with that amount of cash make it that much easier to increase wealth. Whether or not that is a good thing overall is debatable. I'm fully aware that returning to a marginal tax rate of ~90% would do some damage to the economy. But I think that damage is overshadowed by the benefits of increased taxation. And honestly, I would hope it would lead to less overall greed. Kind of a gestalt thing I know.

From a pure investment standpoint, the bolded part is absolutely true. It takes a lot of saving and spending discipline, some basic investment know how, and a bullish stock market to reach that first million. Given time and investment discipline, the next multi-millions come easier. In my view, the greatest driver in the wealth disparity is a result of those who invest in the stock market and those who do not, or can not. If one wants to reduce the wealth gap, IMO, the best way to do that would be to confiscate stock from the billionaires and deed it to the poor so they become investors.

As for your comment about greed, I couldn't agree less....
Invoking my best Gordon Gekko voice, "The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works."

Maybe, it's time for a wak-up call from Gordon...
"Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it".

[Northwestcoug]

Now you are moving the goalposts. First it was "most people don't have the opportunity to become billionaires". Now it seems to be "once someone becomes a millionaire, it is too easy to become a billionaire."

Don't think so bro. Those seem pretty related IMHO.

[Jeff Lebowski]

From a pure investment standpoint, the bolded part is absolutely true. It takes a lot of saving and spending discipline, some basic investment know how, and a bullish stock market to reach that first million. Given time and investment discipline, the next multi-millions come easier. In my view, the greatest driver in the wealth disparity is a result of those who invest in the stock market and those who do not, or can not. If one wants to reduce the wealth gap, IMO, the best way to do that would be to confiscate stock from the billionaires and deed it to the poor so they become investors.

Come on. The vast majority of billionaires become so by building a company that pops. Not by making a million in stock investing and continuing to invest those gains.

[Paperback Writer]

Come on. The vast majority of billionaires become so by building a company that pops. Not by making a million in stock investing and continuing to invest those gains.

Correct. Perhaps I'm guilty of moving the goalposts. While the vast majority of billionaires get to that mark by founding a successful company, the vast majority of multi-millionaires get to their mark by investing. I was addressing the wealth gap controlled by the 9.9 percenters. But this topic is more about the .1 percenters, the billionaires. I stand corrected.

[Eddie]

Don't think so bro. Those seem pretty related IMHO.

Joining the conversation late, but if it's so easy to become a billionaire once you are a millionaire - why are there any millionaires? Why don't they choose to just be a billionaire instead, since it's easier than what they had to do to become a millionaire.

Backing up a bit - even if everyone agrees that it's easier to move from millionaire to billionaire than it is to move from poverty to millionaire - the original point stands that there are some folks who have moved from poverty to billionaire. So if you think getting to billionaire was too easy for them - let's just talk about how they got to millionaire instead?

[clackamascoug]

Another thing to consider in this conversation. Millionaire money is quantified. It's real and tangible. Billionaire money is all paper propped by the news of the day. Zuck and Musk will lose 20 billion in a day - and gain it back by next week. Is Musk really worth 220 Billion - or does that number reflect an artificial value propped up by speculation regarding a future date. In my mind Musk is 70% fluff non value - 30% real meat that you can eat now off the bone.

To me - Bezos is real money - and it's just beginning. Amazon is still early and will grow for decades. Just like the Walton's and Walmart.

[Flystripper]

Another thing to consider in this conversation. Millionaire money is quantified. It's real and tangible. Billionaire money is all paper propped by the news of the day. Zuck and Musk will lose 20 billion in a day - and gain it back by next week. Is Musk really worth 220 Billion - or does that number reflect an artificial value propped up by speculation regarding a future date. In my mind Musk is 70% fluff non value - 30% real meat that you can eat now off the bone.

To me - Bezos is real money - and it's just beginning. Amazon is still early and will grow for decades. Just like the Walton's and Walmart.

Musk has a decent amount of meat on the bone. How much of SpaceX does Musk own? SpaceX has approx. $10B in govt and commercial contracts. I am talking just contract backlog. Their launch business is just the tip of the iceberg. The Starlink program is nearly fully deployed and is basically a worldwide replacement for telecom infrastructure.