Originally posted by old_gregg
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Last edited by tooblue; 08-01-2018, 11:55 PM.
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Originally posted by tooblue View PostAgain, as Moliere and Lebowski have stated a lot has changed. Your notions, expressed above, are based on past understanding that quite frankly is in the past. You speak of compulsion and judgement like we are still living in the 70's and 80's.
If I want to be present for any interview with my child, I can as a matter of policy. I get it. It's hard to let go of your bias, but attitudes are so very different. There are still a few remnants of the old attitudes, but a shift in not only thinking, but in doing has already occurred. Again, just ask Lebowski and Moliere. They are not outliers. They sound just like the men who make up my Ward Bishopric. I'd trust them to speaking with my child. What's more, my wife as Relief Society President, is increasingly being called upon to counsel with Bishop on these issues.
There is obviously a lot more to the story that started this whole thread that we don't know about, but with regards to what we are discussing in this back and forth, honestly, you are out of touch with what is really happening, not just in schools but at church."The mind is not a boomerang. If you throw it too far it will not come back." ~ Tom McGuane
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Originally posted by Non Sequitur View PostWhat are these remnants of the 70's that you say have disappeared? Are you saying teenagers are no longer subjected to worthiness interviews in which they're asked if they observe the law of chastity? Are missionaries no longer asked if they masturbate? I'm sure a lot of these kids reach out on their own to church leaders, but how much of that unburdening is necessary because of the systematic shame and guilt that's been heaped on them since they could walk? I'm sure most of the leaders who counsel the youth are wonderful, sincere people who do their best with the job they're given, but the issue isn't about whether they're good at their job, it's about the appropriateness of certain aspects of that job in the first place.
You bringing up the spectre of shame, again shows you are out of touch, revealing a bias that you just can't let go of. In this very thread Moliere et al have stated, in their most recent experience, the shame you are speaking of is of a by-gone era. Hades, we don't even home teach anymore, so the shame that came with not making monthly visits no longer exists.
Speaking as a parent of five children, two of which having served missions recently, with one who was temple married this past June and the other to be temple married at the end of September, and my third child leaving for his mission at the beginning of September (yes, we are crazy busy), the only shame they may have experienced leading up to any one of these sacred opportunities, was self-inflicted. Local leaders have been amazing, and they are considered a great resource to us as parents.
Are there still remnants of the old attitudes? Yes. Do people sometimes act stupidly, or inappropriately. Yes, that will always happen. But it is not the norm, and it is not a valid reason to demonize good people striving to minister and care for each other.Last edited by tooblue; 08-02-2018, 08:04 AM.
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Originally posted by Non Sequitur View PostWhat are these remnants of the 70's that you say have disappeared? Are you saying teenagers are no longer subjected to worthiness interviews in which they're asked if they observe the law of chastity? Are missionaries no longer asked if they masturbate? I'm sure a lot of these kids reach out on their own to church leaders, but how much of that unburdening is necessary because of the systematic shame and guilt that's been heaped on them since they could walk? I'm sure most of the leaders who counsel the youth are wonderful, sincere people who do their best with the job they're given, but the issue isn't about whether they're good at their job, it's about the appropriateness of certain aspects of that job in the first place."If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
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Originally posted by Non Sequitur View PostWhat are these remnants of the 70's that you say have disappeared? Are you saying teenagers are no longer subjected to worthiness interviews in which they're asked if they observe the law of chastity? Are missionaries no longer asked if they masturbate? I'm sure a lot of these kids reach out on their own to church leaders, but how much of that unburdening is necessary because of the systematic shame and guilt that's been heaped on them since they could walk? I'm sure most of the leaders who counsel the youth are wonderful, sincere people who do their best with the job they're given, but the issue isn't about whether they're good at their job, it's about the appropriateness of certain aspects of that job in the first place."There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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Originally posted by Green Monstah View PostI tend to agree that times they are a-changin', although I will note that my SP asked a follow-up about "self abuse" to the chastity question in my latest TR interview.
So, did he really say “self-abuse”? If my SP used that term, I’d ask him to clarify what he meant."Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf
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I've read the latest conversation with some amazement. Some of you guys must give off the vibe that you're working overtime at the little factory. When I was in my teens in the 90s I can't remember ever once being asked specifically about it. My mission president never brought it up.
That said, I did have a conversation with the first counselor in the bishopric several years ago who claimed that the stake president had advised them to conduct "searching interviews," despite the interview instructions saying specifically you were not to deviate from the questions provided. So I won't deny it happens.
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Originally posted by Moliere View PostThat’s because the spirit compelled him to ask it, for obvious reasons
So, did he really say “self-abuse”? If my SP used that term, I’d ask him to clarify what he meant.Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.
"Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson
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Why don’t Mormon bishops assume the child sitting across from them is masturbating and ditch the question or have it be completely outside the scope of whether a child is “worthy” to go do proxy baptisms or be a teachers quorum counselor? There are kids who are masturbating and kids who are lying about not masturbating. The practice is healthy and awesome. Hell, if I can find a decent break from sizing the business impacts of Trump’s bullshit China tariffs, I may go fire off some knuckle children at some point today. Haven’t decided.
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The only time I was ever asked that question was when I was a priest and was asked to baptize a kid in my hood that was joining the church. Thankfully he didn't ask if I ever felt his daughter's boobs."Nobody listens to Turtle."-Turtlesigpic
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Originally posted by HBCoug View PostWhy don’t Mormon bishops assume the child sitting across from them is masturbating and ditch the question or have it be completely outside the scope of whether a child is “worthy” to go do proxy baptisms or be a teachers quorum counselor? There are kids who are masturbating and kids who are lying about not masturbating. The practice is healthy and awesome. Hell, if I can find a decent break from sizing the business impacts of Trump’s bullshit China tariffs, I may go fire off some knuckle children at some point today. Haven’t decided.Dyslexics are teople poo...
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