If a female tried to get into the priesthood session of GC...

[Jeff Lebowski]

So why not "Women can now get the priesthood"?

That would be great. But I expect it would occur through an announcement at GC or a press conference. Not an essay.

[Uncle Ted]

Well, I am sure for some folks, anything less than "Women can now get the priesthood" is a huge disappointment. As if that would happen through an essay.

Here is the response from Neylan McBaine:

http://bycommonconsent.com/2015/10/24/the-womens-essay/

Seems like the more general reaction is that there some positive things to work with here.

- No attempt was made to equate priesthood to motherhood.
- Discussed the male-only beginnings as being patterned after cultural traditions at the time.
- References women doing blessings of healing
- Discusses women using the priesthood in the temple

Most significantly, it seems to avoid making a hard doctrinal stand against female ordination. As I read it, it doesn't appear to close the door on changes in the future.

So can we tell folks that they can also call their visiting teachers (to share, you know, the blessings of giving blessings)?

[Uncle Ted]

Actually, the problem is worse and more urgent in the LDS church. The fact that lay clergy get the priesthood from age 12 makes the sexism much more insidious than in other patriarchal denominations.

No, there are actually other patriarchal denominations that are worse...

http://www.sltrib.com/csp/mediapool/...44&pid=2876334

[Topper]

I don't think she is self-pitying or melodramatic. I think she's impressive; well spoken with a surprising amount of panache (I had never seen her other than in snapshots before).

She is getting even. She is really pissed that they exed her, and hell hath no fury... They made a tactical if not moral error exing her.

She is right about this:--and I have said this many times--that if the LDS Church does not reform it will die rather quickly (she says "fade into obscurity"). She fears it will not reform. It always reforms; so I disagree with her. As soon as the Catholic Church admits female clergy the LDS church will follow, just like it didn't withdraw from the BSA. Had it withdrawn from the BSA in response to the BSA's acceptance of gay scoutmasters, that would have been the effective end of the LDS church. I predicted it would not withdraw, and it did not.

She is also right that the LDS church--like religion in general--has lost the moral authority and lost control of the dialogue and is dissembling. I don't know if it's "lying" because I haven't read the essays and I don't know LDS history as well as she does (nor do I care to).

Does any group have "moral authority" any more? It seems to me that disparate groups have "moral authority" for members of that group, but that the concept of "moral authority has been largely eroded. Moral authority no longer exists in society at large, which may or may not be a good thing. I use the term in the generic sense. "Moral" meaning how we ought to act. Who has the "authority" to dictate to members of society how individuals should act within in society? It seems not only is religion losing that authority but society at large has lost authority to dictate what is moral and what is not.

[Clark Addison]

Does any group have "moral authority" any more? It seems to me that disparate groups have "moral authority" for members of that group, but that the concept of "moral authority has been largely eroded. Moral authority no longer exists in society at large, which may or may not be a good thing. I use the term in the generic sense. "Moral" meaning how we ought to act. Who has the "authority" to dictate to members of society how individuals should act within in society? It seems not only is religion losing that authority but society at large has lost authority to dictate what is moral and what is not.

Brigham Young University football team.

[Topper]

Brigham Young University football team.

Aside from that group, always a given.

[SeattleUte]

Does any group have "moral authority" any more? It seems to me that disparate groups have "moral authority" for members of that group, but that the concept of "moral authority has been largely eroded. Moral authority no longer exists in society at large, which may or may not be a good thing. I use the term in the generic sense. "Moral" meaning how we ought to act. Who has the "authority" to dictate to members of society how individuals should act within in society? It seems not only is religion losing that authority but society at large has lost authority to dictate what is moral and what is not.

Call me old fashioned, but I believe in morality, good and evil.

[Clark Addison]

I don't think she is self-pitying or melodramatic. I think she's impressive; well spoken with a surprising amount of panache (I had never seen her other than in snapshots before).

She is getting even. She is really pissed that they exed her, and hell hath no fury... They made a tactical if not moral error exing her.

She is right about this:--and I have said this many times--that if the LDS Church does not reform it will die rather quickly (she says "fade into obscurity"). She fears it will not reform. It always reforms; so I disagree with her. As soon as the Catholic Church admits female clergy the LDS church will follow, just like it didn't withdraw from the BSA. Had it withdrawn from the BSA in response to the BSA's acceptance of gay scoutmasters, that would have been the effective end of the LDS church. I predicted it would not withdraw, and it did not.

She is also right that the LDS church--like religion in general--has lost the moral authority and lost control of the dialogue and is dissembling. I don't know if it's "lying" because I haven't read the essays and I don't know LDS history as well as she does (nor do I care to).

I agree with parts of this post but I think that my favorite part is the use of a totally sexist quote in the condemnation of LDS sexism.

[TripletDaddy]

I agree with parts of this post but I think that my favorite part is the use of a totally sexist quote in the condemnation of LDS sexism.

It is also an ironic quote to use when discussion the inability of women to gain any sort of meaningful stature within the LDS leadership hierarchy. Oh no, women are upset!!

[Eddie]

Or Amy Adams

Really?

I want to hear Amy Adams give a talk in General Conference using her Giselle voice from Enchanted for the whole thing.

[Topper]

Call me old fashioned, but I believe in morality, good and evil.

But those are relative to society's consensus on what qualifies. Traditionally, society endowed or the organization just grabbed moral authority to impose upon society. (You said you are old-fashioned and hence recognize the authority of traditional organizations).

However, with the rejection of the authority of traditional entities, there is a vacuum and no authority. Society is devoid of authority and is a vast wasteland of authority. Nobody is empowered to define bad or good.

Good and evil need to be relative something. What is that something? If one rejects religion, what is the moral basis? Science? Science does not in and of itself have limits. There are those within science who wish to establish a consensus of what is proper to do but there is rarely a complete consensus. Society can impose a de facto morality by ostracizing those who do not comply.

Just because society decries an act doesn't inherently make it good or bad, but simply acceptable. There was a time when homosexual activity or relations were considered by a majority as "evil." Now society has defined it at least acceptable and now by some "good."

Why is not that the abolition of organizations such as religious institutions not an abolition of moral authority in society in absence of substitute entities or organisms?

[SeattleUte]

I agree with parts of this post but I think that my favorite part is the use of a totally sexist quote in the condemnation of LDS sexism.

As you know, I am capable of irony, and I'm not a bleeding heart PC wanker. It was deliberate.

[SeattleUte]

It is also an ironic quote to use when discussion the inability of women to gain any sort of meaningful stature within the LDS leadership hierarchy. Oh no, women are upset!!

It was deliberately ironic. That old saying just seemed too perfect not to use. I also was going to mention that she's not too photogenic and is surprisingly attractive in the video, but I realized that I should not try to be 3D, someone I'm not, and stay within myself.

[SeattleUte]

But those are relative to society's consensus on what qualifies. Traditionally, society endowed or the organization just grabbed moral authority to impose upon society. (You said you are old-fashioned and hence recognize the authority of traditional organizations).

However, with the rejection of the authority of traditional entities, there is a vacuum and no authority. Society is devoid of authority and is a vast wasteland of authority. Nobody is empowered to define bad or good.

Good and evil need to be relative something. What is that something? If one rejects religion, what is the moral basis? Science? Science does not in and of itself have limits. There are those within science who wish to establish a consensus of what is proper to do but there is rarely a complete consensus. Society can impose a de facto morality by ostracizing those who do not comply.

Just because society decries an act doesn't inherently make it good or bad, but simply acceptable. There was a time when homosexual activity or relations were considered by a majority as "evil." Now society has defined it at least acceptable and now by some "good."

Why is not that the abolition of organizations such as religious institutions not an abolition of moral authority in society in absence of substitute entities or organisms?

This is breathtakingly ignorant. No, it's not science, but there are guides other than religion, including the humanities, your reason, your emotion, intuition, empathy, history, philosophy, etc.

I don't give a hoot about what any religion says is right or wrong--in fact, religion stands for much that I regard evil or immoral--and I submit I'm not such a bad person.

[TripletDaddy]

It was deliberately ironic. That old saying just seemed too perfect not to use. I also was going to mention that she's not too photogenic and is surprisingly attractive in the video, but I realized that I should not try to be 3D, someone I'm not, and stay within myself.

since we are being honest my first few thoughts while watching that video:
1. not as bad as i thought
2. lets see her legs
3. she is articulate
4. making good points
5. why no full body camera shot?