If a female tried to get into the priesthood session of GC...

[Uncle Ted]

Those kinds of poll numbers mean a lot less to me after reading books about the FLDS. They treat their women far worse than we do and the women seem to be the most passionate about defending their secondary status. It is an interesting phenomenon.

Dude, are you saying women are like mindless sheep?

[smokymountainrain]

Those kinds of poll numbers mean a lot less to me after reading books about the FLDS. They treat their women far worse than we do and the women seem to be the most passionate about defending their secondary status. It is an interesting phenomenon.

Yes it is.

the other thing I thought about was that if Pres Monson came out and said he thinks women should have the priesthood, (then gave some reason why it can't happen - not time yet or something) the 90% number would be 10% in a heartbeat. Women in the church aren't mindless sheep, but they tend to follow the prophet and don't go astray!

[Jeff Lebowski]

My wife used to cover the priesthood session when she was a reporter for a Salt Lake TV station. I went with her. We had great seats in the Tabernacle. In our stake some women show up to the broadcast in the stake center. I haven't noticed any reaction. Most people in attendance seem to be half asleep anyway. I went to the women's broadcast once to serve food at the pre-broadcast dinner.

Interesting. I've attended every PH session in the Conference Center for the last 5 years and there are plenty of women there. They're all ushers and hostess type church employees/missionaries. They also have 2 or 3 chicks in church security there as well as TV reporters (Carole Mikita is always there). I find it odd that they wouldn't let a female reporter in.

Hmmm, LA's personal anecdote supports my own. I'm wondering if there was more to the story than just not letting a female in? Maybe she didn't pre-arrange and just showed up unannounced and flashed some media creds at the old goobers who are manning the doors? Maybe they thought she had some kind of axe to grind based on her past work? Maybe the church just hates women reports from AP or UPI or whatever? Who knows? All I know is that women aren't invisible at PH session in the CC in my experience.

Peggy Fletcher Stack just posted this on FB:

I have never been allowed into the building for the priesthood session. Neither has any female reporter (apparently Wendy Ogata attended once when she was at the DNews, but that is the only exception I have ever heard.) We used to send male, non-Mormon reporters and that was fine. Now the church sends me the talks.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Those kinds of poll numbers mean a lot less to me after reading books about the FLDS. They treat their women far worse than we do and the women seem to be the most passionate about defending their secondary status. It is an interesting phenomenon.

Yes, and it is a familiar phenomenon to anyone who has studied Gramsci and hegemony.

[Uncle Ted]

Yes it is.

the other thing I thought about was that if Pres Monson came out and said he thinks women should have the priesthood, (then gave some reason why it can't happen - not time yet or something) the 90% number would be 10% in a heartbeat. Women in the church aren't mindless sheep, but they tend to follow the prophet and don't go astray!

Which prophet are you talking about? Monson or Jeffs?

I still think someone told them how much having to go to priesthood meeting on a Saturday night sucks. That is why 90% don't want the priesthood.

[Maximus]

Can someone explain to me why not having the priesthood means women have a secondary status in the church?

[Indy Coug]

Can someone explain to me why not having the priesthood means women have a secondary status in the church?

I need to ask my wife first before I can answer this.

[pellegrino]

Yes, and it is a familiar phenomenon to anyone who has studied Gramsci and hegemony.

yes it is, and I think we also might be dealing with demand characteristic as well.

Though, I don't know how much weight to give those survey numbers as the sample they used to get the results was ridiculously low. Less than 100 IIRC. It's really almost shameful that the Desnews would throw those numbers out there without investigating how they got them and what they actually are.

http://www.the-exponent.com/who-thin...en-apparently/

look in the comments section under David Campbell's clarification about the survey. Campbell is one of the authors of the survey.

Some technical details: The data we report on Mormons’ attitudes toward female clergy come from a national survey of 3,100 randomly-selected Americans. There are 53 Mormons in our sample, which is the right percentage (roughly 2% of the population). More on the fact that we only have 53 Mormons below.

The interviews were done over the phone, with interviewers employed by ICR, a highly-reputable survey research firm. The interviewers were both men and women.

The particular datum in question comes from the following question:
I’m going to read a list of statements that some people agree with and
others don’t. For each, please tell me whether you basically agree or
basically disagree. How about ______ ?

[The survey then had a list of statements, which were presented in a random order in order to eliminate what are known as “ordering effects”]

The statement about women-as-clergy is:
Women should be allowed to be priests or clergy in my house of worship

Note that since this was a national survey, we had to phrase the question so that it applies across different religions. Thus, we did not ask whether women should hold the priesthood, since that would only apply to a few religions. We also chose “in my house of worship” as a compromise between one’s religion, one’s denomination, and one’s congregation. In Mormonism all three are the same, but that is not so for many Protestant faiths. I concede that if we were focusing on Mormons’ attitudes, we would use a different phrasing. Nonetheless, it seems reasonable that most Mormons would understand this question as being about whether women should hold the priesthood.

Now, the fact that we only have a total of 53 Mormon respondents means that while our estimates are representative, they also have a wide “margin of error.” This margin is only wider when we compare men vs. women, since each is only half of the group. In other words, while I am confident that Mormon men are more likely than Mormon women to believe that women should hold the priesthood, I am less confident in the precision of 10% (women) versus 48% (men).

[SteelBlue]

Can someone explain to me why not having the priesthood means women have a secondary status in the church?

Joanna Brooks linked to a blog entry today that attempted to address this question. You may or may not find it interesting.

http://www.dovesandserpents.org/wp/2...s-complicated/

[woot]

Yes it is.

the other thing I thought about was that if Pres Monson came out and said he thinks women should have the priesthood, (then gave some reason why it can't happen - not time yet or something) the 90% number would be 10% in a heartbeat. Women in the church aren't mindless sheep, but they tend to follow the prophet and don't go astray!

Yeah it seems similar to the various requirements of Muslim women in some places (burka/hijab, can't be seen in public without a man, etc.). While it's a horrific case of oppression, I bet the vast majority of the oppressed would defend it.

[Northwestcoug]

Joanna Brooks linked to a blog entry today that attempted to address this question. You may or may not find it interesting.

http://www.dovesandserpents.org/wp/2...s-complicated/

I liked that article. The quote at the end resonated with me (but I don't get emotional when I know my pilot is female)

“It’s because every time I’m on a plane, and the captain’s voice on the intercom is female, I get a little teary. I’ve never wanted to be a pilot, and it really doesn’t make any practical difference whether a man or a woman lands the plane safely. I have no eloquent or reasoned argument to explain my emotion. But it matters. It. Just. Does. I want my daughter to know girls can fly.”

[Northwestcoug]

yes it is, and I think we also might be dealing with demand characteristic as well.

Though, I don't know how much weight to give those survey numbers as the sample they used to get the results was ridiculously low. Less than 100 IIRC. It's really almost shameful that the Desnews would throw those numbers out there without investigating how they got them and what they actually are.

http://www.the-exponent.com/who-thin...en-apparently/

look in the comments section under David Campbell's clarification about the survey. Campbell is one of the authors of the survey.

I noticed this too. It's ridiculous to quote those findings when the sample size is so low.

However, when I was looking through this there was a link (can't remember if from DesNews or not) to an earlier Pew forum survey that polled ~1000 self-identified Mormons. They didn't find a sex difference in wanting women to have the priesthood (it was about 10% for both men and women). FWIW.

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/01/12/m...a-family-life/

[Uncle Ted]

Can someone explain to me why not having the priesthood means women have a secondary status in the church?

Women don't have a secondary status. It's all pretty simple: women are equal but have different roles. Ask Brother Jake:

http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthr...=1#post1023214

It is kind of like when their was a priesthood ban for people with certain skin color...

[Portland Ute]

I wonder what kind he wears.

A Rolex. Purchased from the Rolex boutique at City Creek.

[pellegrino]

I noticed this too. It's ridiculous to quote those findings when the sample size is so low.

However, when I was looking through this there was a link (can't remember if from DesNews or not) to an earlier Pew forum survey that polled ~1000 self-identified Mormons. They didn't find a sex difference in wanting women to have the priesthood (it was about 10% for both men and women). FWIW.

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/01/12/m...a-family-life/

looks like lazy journalism, surprise surprise coming from the Desnews.

Actually what is surprising is that more recent forum (at least those results were published more recently). I find it more depressing than the other one.