Is it doctrine or culture that keeps women from being ordained?

[SoonerCoug]

Mostly because I find you boring, although I will have to give more thought to your point about why Jesus didn't ordain any Chinese Apostles.

Why is it that all you can do is insult me instead of making an argument for why women shouldn't have the priesthood? Let's hear your thoughts.

I'm not here to entertain you. I'm just waiting for you to stand up for something. I want to hear what you believe.

[CardiacCoug]

We need to be careful going back to the bible for guidance. There was no concept of priesthood in the sense that we use it. Priesthood simply meant those who were in a position to minister. Miracles were performed by the power of faith or Spirit and there was no mention of someone needing to be ordained and given a divine power prior to ministering. Ditto for the BOM.

Furthermore, there are many references to prophetesses in the bible (http://www.openbible.info/topics/prophetess). And quite a few people believe that Romans 16:7 is evidence that there was a female apostle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junia).

Yep, I think Sidney Rigdon came up with the Priesthood idea around 1835 and Joseph bought into it. Then people started hearing about the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthood restoration.

[SoonerCoug]

I am going to quibble with you on this one. I am well aware that this was a later addition (this is well documented in Bart Erhman's Misquoting Jesus book), but I don't agree that this proves that the story is fraudulent, in the sense that the story never happened.

Minor technicality. You're right--it could have happened. I was making a bigger point about how unreliable the Bible is. Almost anything could have happened. Jesus could have come back to life three days after he died.

[splitbamboo]

Why don't you address the issue? Explain to me why it's good to exclude women from the priesthood.

My wife's comment: no way. Then we'd have to do all the work. That after a horrendous term as RS Pres.

[All-American]

Why is it that all you can do is insult me instead of making an argument for why women shouldn't have the priesthood? Let's hear your thoughts.

I'm not here to entertain you. I'm just waiting for you to stand up for something. I want to hear what you believe.

I've actually given my thoughts on this one before. You're free to look it up; I've got other matters to attend to tonight. Sorry if I just don't care to engage you for the sake of repeating myself.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Minor technicality. You're right--it could have happened. I was making a bigger point about how unreliable the Bible is. Almost anything could have happened. Jesus could have come back to life three days after he died.

Yes, I realize it was not your main point. But dang it, I like that story! I am glad someone added it later.

[Indy Coug]

Anyone on this board willing to give an argument of substance?

Tell us why excluding women from the priesthood makes the Church better.

Your question is based on the false premise that it's a matter of the church being "better" or not with the status quo. I'm not interested in wasting time on your false premise.

[SoonerCoug]

Your question is based on the false premise that it's a matter of the church being "better" or not with the status quo. I'm not interested in wasting time on your false premise.

Was it a false premise to think that the Church became better when black men were granted the priesthood?

[Indy Coug]

Was it a false premise to think that the Church became better when black men were granted the priesthood?

It's another false premise to think the two situations are comparable.

[SoonerCoug]

It's another false premise to think the two situations are comparable.

You're right. Discrimination based on race and gender are totally different.

[Indy Coug]

Its high time for the Levites to get their shit together and make an offering in righteousness.

[All-American]

Yes, I realize it was not your main point. But dang it, I like that story! I am glad someone added it later.

If SU were here, he'd point out that all of the gospels are unreliable as history anyway.

[UVACoug]

then I'll assume you already know the answer to the question.

Having searched the canonized scriptures, I cannot find anything other than traditional chauvinistic language preferences (using he as a generic pronoun instead of gender neutral language) that leads me to believe that the sex of a priesthood holder matters.

However, if we look at the historical record and read about the organization of the Relief Society, it's pretty clear that Joseph Smith intended it to be a female priesthood. This interpretation is strengthened by the fact that Brigham Young disbanded Society shortly after being chosen to lead and that several years later when women approached him he berated them and said there would be nothing like what Joseph had started.

In BY's defense, (can't believe I'm saying that) he did allow for and encourage women to bless and anoint each other in times of sickness or distress. That was the closest we've ever come to having women priesthood holders.

We

I don't know the answer, which is why I asked. Do you have any sources I could look at with regard to the relief society being a female priesthood?

[All-American]

You're right. Discrimination based on race and gender are totally different.

Agreed.

[UVACoug]

Anyone on this board willing to give an argument of substance?

Tell us why excluding women from the priesthood makes the Church better.

And this is why I was hesitant to bring up the question. I was mostly looking for some sources to study the issue, not to start a debate about whether women holding the priesthood helps or hurts the Church. I don't find that debate very interesting or important.