Had to drink coffee could talk himslef in to tr

[Jeff Lebowski]

Gordon B. Hinckley Apr 1990 Priesthood session (I recall a Bishop telling me of a woman who came to get a recommend. When asked if she kept the Word of Wisdom she said she occasionally drank a cup of coffee, She said now Bishop youre not going to let that keep me from going to the temple are you? To which he replied surely you will not let a cup of coffee stand between you and the Lord.

Basically said prepare for temple. So some people know more than prophet on matter.

My bishop apparently knows more than the prophet. He occasionally gives the green light to tea or coffee.

[marsupial]

My bishop apparently knows more than the prophet. He occasionally gives the green light to tea or coffee.

You Utah Mormons are so relaxed. I bet you watch TV on Sunday, too.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You Utah Mormons are so relaxed. I bet you watch TV on Sunday, too.

Only when in a hedonistic mood.

[The_Douger]

Only when in a hedonistic mood.

Only for four months a year. When the NFL is on.

[San Juan Sun]

diet mt dew.

Got me through 5 years of residency.

[Harry Tic]

diet mt dew.

Yea, let us go up unto the Mountain. I just want to go on record as the third witness of the truth spoken by Colly Wolly and San Juan Sun. And I hereby shake the dust off my feet as a testimony against all unbelievers in the salvific powers of said beverage.

And may I also note that this thread has perhaps the most awesome title of any thread that has ever been, or ever will be.


*Edit* I just realized that "tr" in the thread title means "temple recommend." Duh. I thought at first that grapevine started to type a word and got bored with it and just quit. Either that or a shot rang out and he slumped over the keyboard unconscious. It's still a pleasant enough thread title though, even if it is no longer the best ever.

[RC Vikings]

My bishop apparently knows more than the prophet. He occasionally gives the green light to tea or coffee.

My wife has to have her coffee a couple of times a week and has never been denied a TR. She has a bigger problem with her sons giving her a hard time for it.

[doctorcoug]

I used to use rockstars, then I took care of a 17 year old in the ICU with acute kidney injury that needed dialysis which we thought was due to energy drinks after an exhaustive search. I've never tasted an energy drink since.

via a galaxy s3 far far away

[Harry Tic]

Over/under on the official interpretation of the WoW being tweaked in our lifetime?

I ask because it sounds to me from some of the anecdotal evidence presented here that some bishops are already becoming somewhat more selective in aspects of the traditional interpretation to enforce. I haven't seen it personally but is there any kind of sense this is a prelude to a general relaxing of some parts of it?

[CardiacCoug]

Over/under on the official interpretation of the WoW being tweaked in our lifetime?

I ask because it sounds to me from some of the anecdotal evidence presented here that some bishops are already becoming somewhat more selective in aspects of the traditional interpretation to enforce. I haven't seen it personally but is there any kind of sense this is a prelude to a general relaxing of some parts of it?

I don't care if the teaching of the WoW is modified. But I really wish the "not by commandment or constraint" part of D&C 89 would be taken at face value. Why is that completely ignored? The WoW should be considered inspired health ADVICE, not the most important litmus test (in a lot of members' minds) for what constitutes a worthy Church member.

[ERCougar]

Over/under on the official interpretation of the WoW being tweaked in our lifetime?

I ask because it sounds to me from some of the anecdotal evidence presented here that some bishops are already becoming somewhat more selective in aspects of the traditional interpretation to enforce. I haven't seen it personally but is there any kind of sense this is a prelude to a general relaxing of some parts of it?

As we find out more and more about how little sense it makes from a health perspective (which is still how many members view it), I can see it being quietly de-emphasized. At some point,it will be dropped from the temple recommend questions. Then, it's just a matter of time. One day, it will be seen as a quirky relic of our history.

[Harry Tic]

I don't care if the teaching of the WoW is modified. But I really wish the "not by commandment or constraint" part of D&C 89 would be taken at face value. Why is that completely ignored? The WoW should be considered inspired health ADVICE, not the most important litmus test (in a lot of members' minds) for what constitutes a worthy Church member.

Although this is a point that has been explored at length in many, many places (including, I'm sure, in previous threads on CUF), it's one of those quirks of church culture/policy that is endlessly fascinating.

It's an open secret that the church has a real challenge with institutional inertia once a precedent has been established. There's an interesting disconnect between our trumpeting of our openness to continuing revelation and the sheer force of institutional inertia that makes even minor changes of direction seem momentous. I personally don't hold out any hopes of any changes in the official interpretation of the WoW, although it's fun to try to read the tea leaves.

[ERCougar]

Although this is a point that has been explored at length in many, many places (including, I'm sure, in previous threads on CUF), it's one of those quirks of church culture/policy that is endlessly fascinating.

It's an open secret that the church has a real challenge with institutional inertia once a precedent has been established. There's an interesting disconnect between our trumpeting of our openness to continuing revelation and the sheer force of institutional inertia that makes even minor changes of direction seem momentous. I personally don't hold out any hopes of any changes in the official interpretation of the WoW, although it's fun to try to read the tea leaves.

I obviously agree with the institutional inertia aspect, but in the end, doctrine--at least as it retains any meaning--comes from the ground up. Our church is very organic in that we have no real established written doctrine to refer to, to the frustration of SU et al. It changes with the behavior of the body of the church.

You remove the TR question (something the Church could easily do while saving face--say that they're focusing on more spiritual matters), and the WOW is history, IMO. I know plenty of people who only follow it to the letter (even this isn't very clear--iced coffee, coffee ice cream, green tea, marijuana brownies in Colorado, etc...) because they want to go to the temple. I also know plenty of people who can't go to the temple because they drink an occasional coffee. There's impetus for change here and I bet we see it in the next twenty or so years.

[CardiacCoug]

There's impetus for change here and I bet we see it in the next twenty or so years.

That's best-case scenario.

I think it would accelerate change if more loyal members of the Church said things like: "I drink green tea and a glass of red wine every day on the recommendation of my doctor. He says these drinks have a lot of health benefits."

I bet only half (or even less?) of Bishops would deny a TR to otherwise good Church members who said something like that.

[Harry Tic]

That's best-case scenario.

I think it would be accelerate change if more loyal members of the Church said things like: "I drink green tea and a glass of red wine every day on the recommendation of my doctor. He says these drinks have a lot of health benefits."

I bet only half (or even less?) of Bishops would deny a TR to otherwise good Church members who said something like that.

I think that it's interesting that so many members--even the most orthodox--seem to enjoy retelling the story of David O. McKay (?) and the rumcake. It's a safe way of acknowledging that we've carried some of our WoW interpretation way beyond the mark and gently removing the stigma of certain kinds of indulgence.

That said, I think the institutional dynamic is alternately intriguing and frustrating: the church's preferred way of moving forward on certain issues is a kind of benign neglect and a subtle attempt to change the topic. That presents real problems when old-guard members insist that older teachings are binding until explicitly repudiated. The end result: gridlock and a growing rift beyond more moderate members and leaders and more conservative ones. Take another controversial issue, rinse, and repeat.