What will Mormons do with Gay Marriage 20 years from now?

[RobinFinderson]

In a different thread some of you are talking about the sea change taking place in this country regarding gay marriage. Few of us probably doubt that within the next ten years gay marriage will be the law of the land, and in twenty years our current majority view will seem utterly anachronistic.

Given those likelihoods, what do you think will be the long-term game plan for the church regarding gay marriage and the complete social acceptance of openly gay men and women?

[UtahDan]

In a different thread some of you are talking about the sea change taking place in this country regarding gay marriage. Few of us probably doubt that within the next ten years gay marriage will probably be the recognized law of the land, and in twenty years from now the current majority view will seem totally anachronistic.

Given those likelihoods, what do you think will be the long-term game plan for the church regarding gay marriage and the complete social acceptance of openly gay men and women in the public sphere?

The same way it deals with a hundred other things that society accepts that the church teaches against. No mystery here.

[All-American]

In a different thread some of you are talking about the sea change taking place in this country regarding gay marriage. Few of us probably doubt that within the next ten years gay marriage will probably be the recognized law of the land, and in twenty years from now the current majority view will seem totally anachronistic.

Given those likelihoods, what do you think will be the long-term game plan for the church regarding gay marriage and the complete social acceptance of openly gay men and women in the public sphere?

I can somewhat perceive that there are two camps forming in the opposition to gay marriage. The first of these will fight it at any cost and prefer failure to compromise. I know for a fact that there are General Authorities who were part of the decision to get involved with Prop 8 who never imagined that it would pass.

The second camp is willing to compromise in regards to Civil Unions, recognizing a) that lacking the religious argument, there is not much of a civil argument against it, and b), the tide shifting in favor of gay marriage. Any political pundits who truly wish to preserve the institution of marriage and see gay marriage as a threat to traditional marriage would do well to get on the Civil Union bandwagon now, while they still have some bargaining power.

[SeattleUte]

The same way it deals with a hundred other things that society accepts that the church teaches against. No mystery here.

You mean it will pretend like the past never happened? It will say no one knows why we opposed gay marriage? God only knows?

[RobinFinderson]

The same way it deals with a hundred other things that society accepts that the church teaches against. No mystery here.

Sure, but a lot of members really think that this is end-of-times material. This isn't like ending prohibition or even blacks and the priesthood. The church's view of homosexual behavior runs much deeper than did racism at the time of the proclamation. It is hard not to figure that a lot of fifty-year-old church types (ie. the upper leadership base) are going to harbor some animosity toward gay people for some time. I think it will be hard to brush this off and move forward.

Will there be a major social division in the church? Where a more willful younger generation decides to embrace gay people while the older generation grinds its teeth?

[SteelBlue]

Will there be a major social division in the church? Where a more willful younger generation decides to embrace gay people while the older generation grinds its teeth?

I believe this is already happening.

[Mormon Red Death]

Will there be a major social division in the church? Where a more willful younger generation decides to embrace gay people while the older generation grinds its teeth?

Seems pretty similar to the blacks and the priesthood

[UtahDan]

You mean it will pretend like the past never happened? It will say no one knows why we opposed gay marriage? God only knows?

Exactly. We will accept it and pretend we don't know why we opposed it before. Like we have given in on the word of wisdom, premarital sex, adultery, porn, etc, etc, etc. Does anyone even remember now why we once opposed those?

[UtahDan]

Sure, but a lot of members really think that this is end-of-times material. This isn't like ending prohibition or even blacks and the priesthood. The church's view of homosexual behavior runs much deeper than did racism at the time of the proclamation. It is hard not to figure that a lot of fifty-year-old church types (ie. the upper leadership base) are going to harbor some animosity toward gay people for some time. I think it will be hard to brush this off and move forward.

Will there be a major social division in the church? Where a more willful younger generation decides to embrace gay people while the older generation grinds its teeth?

I don't get that perception at all. And even if you are right, and it does become pervasive, people will see that the world didn't end and will move on, treating it like lots of other things that society accepts that the church doesn't.

[SeattleUte]

Exactly. We will accept it and pretend we don't know why we opposed it before. Like we have given in on the word of wisdom, premarital sex, adultery, porn, etc, etc, etc. Does anyone even remember now why we once opposed those?

Well, this is pretty offensive to those who see gay marriage as a civil rights issue. I think you underestimate your larger society if you think it's anything but that that is causing this sea change. People see it as a civil rights issue, not as a libertarian issue. You have always been confused about this.

[SeattleUte]

I don't get that perception at all. And even if you are right, and it does become pervasive, people will see that the world didn't end and will move on, treating it like lots of other things that society accepts that the church doesn't.

You mean like treating blacks equally? Is that what the Church has done?

[UtahDan]

Well, this is pretty offensive to those who see gay marriage as a civil rights issue. I think you underestimate your larger society if you think it's anything but that that is causing this sea change. People see it as a civil rights issue, not as a libertarian issue. You have always been confused about this.

Oh. People see it as offensive? Well in that case, you are probably right. The church will back down on this in the end. How did the adultery and fornication laws come off the books? Is there perhaps a difference between thinking something is wrong and thinking that the law should proscribe it or not support it?

I have said a hundred times before, this is a lost cause in terms of what the law will do. But this will, at the end of the day, be no more uncomfortable than telling people that they are "living in sin" when they are shacked up but not married. And most people won't ever say that. Maybe others can correct me if I am wrong, perhaps they do face a lot of uneasiness with their coworkers and neighbors who live with their significant other, knowing the church teaches it it wrong to do so. I know that I can scarcely look the women in my office in the face knowing that we opposed the ERA. The church will maintain that gay marriage is contrary to God's law, teach its members not to do it and some members will be judgmental about it and others won't.

This just isn't nearly the box for the church that you want it to be. You'll see.

[BlueHair]

I think 20 to 30 years from now the church will still be teaching that homosexuality is wrong. They will remove themselves from any political aspect of the fight. The view from the outside will still be that Mormons are weird. I doubt the LDS church will be the only church still preaching against homosexuality.

[All-American]

The world left the Mormon church behind on the alcohol issue, after all.

I dunno.

[UtahDan]

You mean like treating blacks equally? Is that what the Church has done?

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't think there is any organization in the world that can look back one hundred years and feel proud of how it treated blacks. The church is no exception and is exceptional only in the sense that it was much slower than most to make the right changes. But this was something that was correctable on a doctrinal level. And it did get corrected. I do think the church is trying to treat blacks equally now, yes. Homosexuality is not something that, in my opinion, will ever be reconcilable to LDS theology or the theology of most conservative Christian churches. I would love it if it were. Maybe I am wrong and the revelation will come. I'm no mullah on this, but I am realistic about the limitations of how far the doctrine can bend. It can't bend that far, IMO.

The point, though, is that churches continue to hold standards, not just the LDS church, that society thinks are outmoded. I know you see this as being identical to the issue of race and are imagining a world where LDS will all be viewed as bigots by most people as we would be if the priesthood ban were still in effect. I just think you are overestimating how many people will ultimately see it that way. I think there will be enough folks out there who will continue to differentiate (no need to have the immutability debate again, I have internalized your position on that and think it is reasonable but that there is room for disagreement, as you know) that things will be as they are now on any number of other fronts. The church has faced much larger challenges than this. It is nothing if not resilient. You can make whatever normative argument you want about it SU, but that's not what I am doing. I just trying to tell you how I think it will unfold. Just one guy's opinion.