Responding to Persecution

[Jeff Lebowski]

Here's Judge Bybee's wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Bybee

Gotcha. Now I remember.

[wuapinmon]

12/11/06

1:47PM

We are recruiting Christians or Jews who (1) are serious about their faith, (2) have some type of active church/synagogue involvement (no specific denomination is required), and (3) have reflected on our their faith impacts them as a teacher-scholar. There is no single answer to the faith-learning question; it is an ongoing conversation. I see no invasion of academic freedom.

I hope this response addresses your concerns. If you have further questions, do not hesitate to contact me. Go ahead and send your responses to the other questions, and I will try to advise you if something is lacking asap.

1:54 PM

Dear Mac:

I just glanced at your dossier again and noticed that you are a Mormon, which, according to current Baylor policy, we do not hire. I regret to say that this will exclude you from further consideration.

I wish you the best in your job search.

[wuapinmon]

12/15/06

Dear Mr. Williams:

Please excuse my late response to your earlier e-mail. We just hired a new president and I have been unable to discuss this issue with him. Our previous president would not hire Mormons. He told me we are a reformed institution and that Mormons do not meet our requirements. My guess is that the new president will take the same stand, but I wanted to make sure before responding to you inquiry.

If I find that our policy has changed with the new president, I will let you know.

[wuapinmon]

12/25/06

Dear Dr. Williams:

Thank you so much for your inquiry. Although, we need good applicants for this position, I have to say that other Mormons who have applied here have run into some opposition. The concern has always been "fit." GWU is not some Bible-thumping hard core place. On the contrary, it's very "open"; however, when it comes to hiring, things get somewhat complicated. I don't want to tell you not to apply because we would be more than happy to review your CV. However, I needed to tell you this from an historical point of view per my experience on other hiring committees. I hope this response has been helpful to you.

[wuapinmon]

This isn't persecution, just legal discrimination.

I'm a white, Southern, male, American citizen. If this is the worst discrimination I ever get, I'll count myself lucky.

[Indy Coug]

This isn't persecution, just legal discrimination.

I'm a white, Southern, male, American citizen. If this is the worst discrimination I ever get, I'll count myself lucky.

"Legal" discrimination?

[wuapinmon]

"Legal" discrimination?

Religious organizations can not hire someone based on religion.

[UtahDan]

"Legal" discrimination?

No different than if BYU told an applicant that they had never historically hired a member of the Church of Satan, and didn't anticipate that would change. It is discrimination against a particular religion, but there is not illegal about it in that context.

[wuapinmon]

No different than if BYU told an applicant that they had never historically hired a member of the Church of Satan, and didn't anticipate that would change. It is discrimination against a particular religion, but there is not illegal about it in that context.

BYU's job ads actually say something like, "BYU welcomes applicants from all faiths, but active members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are given preference and priority in hiring."

Something like that.

[cowboy]

I don't necessarily disagree with you here, as I think one of the keys to happiness is regaining perspective on the many ways each of our lives have been blessed. But we could say the same thing about Americans and poverty--most Americans have no clue what poverty really is. Or that most African Americans today have no idea what real racism is.

Just because things are better now doesn't mean that people don't feel it nor that we should remain oblivious to anything but the most egregious examples. Persecution, like everything else, is in the eye of the beholder and is relative. I think the best focus for the lesson, as with every topic, should be on things we have control over, i.e. what ways are we inadvertently persecuting others and how can we help others around us in their "persecutions".

Along with this, I think it is useful to distinguish persecution from prejudice or discrimination. Most of us have experienced prejudice; few of us have experienced persecution.

[Tex]

Anyone have any insights or thoughts on the topic?

Invite Richard Raddon or Scott Eckern to come guest teach.

[TripletDaddy]

No different than if BYU told an applicant that they had never historically hired a member of the Church of Satan, and didn't anticipate that would change. It is discrimination against a particular religion, but there is not illegal about it in that context.

It would be interesting to hire someone from the Church of Satan. Maybe let him or her teach some of the less controversial subjects, like Rec Management or Intro to Broadcast Journalism.

[UtahDan]

It would be interesting to hire someone from the Church of Satan. Maybe let him or her teach some of the less controversial subjects, like Rec Management or Intro to Broadcast Journalism.

I thought BYU didn't offer that course precisely because everyone who teaches it is a member of that church.

[TripletDaddy]

I thought BYU didn't offer that course precisely because everyone who teaches it is a member of that church.

Hogwash.

There is such a thing as righteous broadcast journalism. Ever hear of Bonneville Communications? KBYU? BYUTV? I thought so. QED.

[LA Ute]

I just noticed that our priesthood lesson scheduled for next week is Joseph Smith Manual Lesson #32 - Responding to Persecution.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=da135f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=5858b00367c45110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1&contentLocale=0

I am not looking forward to this. I grimace every time the topic of persecution comes up. I have never liked the persecution mentality in our culture and I think we tend to greatly exaggerate modern persecution. This is especially true regarding the gay marriage debate.

Anyone have any insights or thoughts on the topic?

Here's my perspective:

This will seem odd to you, but I think that our institutional church does not make a big deal out of persecution. Growing up in Salt Lake City as a life-long member, I never heard about Haun's Mill, for example. I was aware there was an Extermination Order, but to know the details I had to study about it on my own. (I moved away in 1982, so maybe the mentality has changed.)

In my San Fernando Valley ward now, I don't hear about persecution as a modern-day reality. We talk to the youth a lot about opposition (and they need to hear about that), and in adult classes we talk about it as well. But I don't hear the "P" word, except in a historical context. It just seems to me that it is not something we dwell on.

By way of contrast, I have many Jewish friends and read a lot of work by Jewish thinkers and authors. For good reason, they are much more preoccupied with the wrongs they have endured in the past than Mormons are -- in my experience, at least. We can't hold a candle to them on that front.

On the subject of your lesson, it reminds me of the 1980s when "The God Makers" came out. That degree and type of attack on our faith was then new to most members of the Church. I remember teaching an EQ lesson on the subject and reading from a letter the First Presidency issued that urged members to "pray for the enemies of the Church," not to retaliate, not to get too wrapped up in any fights, to remember that the work is divine and will go forward, just to keep living the gospel, especially the first two great commandments, etc. Maybe you can emphasize that - you may even be able to dig up the First Presidency letter. It would have been in about 1986-87.

I do think that the modern Church's attitude has been more of "turning the other cheek." Public Communications does issue corrections and denials, but we try not to be victims. That's another point to emphasize. During and after Prop 8 there were many who wanted the Church to hit back, to come out swinging, but that did not happen.

Another thought: I have an ancestor who was burned out of his house -- which he had built himself - in Far West. I had to learn about that in a Church history book, in a footnote. It was never part of our family lore. But the larger point is this: For most of us, the occasional social disapproval we have to put up with is nothing compared to being burned out of one's house, or getting tarred and feathered. We ought to just buck up, avoid whining, and keep moving, and hope that if we ever are persecuted like the early saints were (or like early Christians were) we can bear it as well as they did.

Final thought: This is great lesson fodder. Hugh Hewitt, a talk radio host, interviewed Lawrence O'Donnell, a "McLaughlin Group" commentator (I call those people "guest shouters") who had gone off on a rant about Mormonism in the context of Mitt Romney's candidacy. Here's the exchange:

HH: Would you say the same things about Mohammed as you just said about Joseph Smith?

LO’D: Oh, well, I’m afraid of what the…that’s where I’m really afraid. I would like to criticize Islam much more than I do publicly, but I’m afraid for my life if I do.

HH: Well, that’s candid.

LO’D: Mormons are the nicest people in the world. They’re not going to ever…

HH: So you can be bigoted towards Mormons, because they’ll just send you a strudel.

LO’D: They’ll never take a shot at me. Those other people, I’m not going to say a word about them.

HH: They’ll send you a strudel. The Mormons will bake you a cake and be nice to you.

LO’D: I agree.

HH: Lawrence O’Donnell, I appreciate your candor.

I think that is fascinating, and I hope reflects an understanding among at least some people that that's the way Mormons are. And I really hope that is the way we are -- or at least try to be.

Anyway, if I were teaching the lesson those are the tacks I would take.