Responding to Persecution

[Jeff Lebowski]

I just noticed that our priesthood lesson scheduled for next week is Joseph Smith Manual Lesson #32 - Responding to Persecution.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...ontentLocale=0

I am not looking forward to this. I grimace every time the topic of persecution comes up. I have never liked the persecution mentality in our culture and I think we tend to greatly exaggerate modern persecution. This is especially true regarding the gay marriage debate.

Anyone have any insights or thoughts on the topic?

[Indy Coug]

Most people living in the Utah bubble have no clue what persecution is.

[byu71]

Most people living in the Utah bubble have no clue what persecution is.

What is this Utah Bubble thing? Are you talking about the Utah County bubble? Actually the bubble people are talking about when referencing the Utah County Bubble, is really the BYU mindset. A mindset you defend often and rigorously.

Although I live in the state of Utah and you live outside of it, I think you are actually more of a member of the "Utah bubble", than I am.

That is not meant to be a knock by the way. As long as a persons mindset is not sinful, I am very tolerant of anothers opinion, even if it does come from a "bubble" mentality.

[smokymountainrain]

Most people living in the Utah bubble have no clue what persecution is.

Most LDS have no clue what persecution is.

[TripletDaddy]

I am teaching that lesson, as well.

I was looking over the lesson yesterday during F&T meeting and had the same impression as you....I don't want this lesson to turn into a 40 minute comment fest with story after story about how someone yelled at you as you rode your bike down the street on your mission.

There are several ideas swirling around in my head and I will flesh them out over the coming days, including

1. incorporating modern examples of religious persecution and the resulting effects (holocaust/state of Israel, decline/loss of Native American culture, etc)
2. Self-persecution as a tool of the adversary....the need to forgive and love ourselves in order to be closer to the Spirit, etc.
3. How to be empathetic to our LDS youth as they navigate through peer pressure and temptation
4. How do we persecute others, if at all, in their religious or personal beliefs?
5. obviously the scriptures are chock full of examples of persecution for righteousness sake, so I will want to incorporate that, as well.

My main concern is that this Sunday is Mother's Day. Half the men will be in Primary during second and third hour so that all the women can go to RS for a special 2-hour deal. They are doing a brunch with food and stuff. So I may not even be able to teach my lesson because I might have to hang out in Primary.

I would love to hear other approaches to this upcoming lesson. I will share some of mine as the weekend approaches. Like I said, I need to flesh out the framework, first. I am still jotting down basic concepts at this point.

[Fiyero]

All of those manuals have the same topics. Every year there's one on keeping the sabbath holy; one on temple work; one on missionary work, etc. The only difference is the source of the quotes.

During last year's persecution lesson I visited a well-to-do ward, and the comments were along the lines of people in the community cheating on their taxes and screwing one another in business transactions. "I can't trust any members of the church anymore!"

[byu71]

Most LDS have no clue what persecution is.

Neither do most minority groups in my opinion. They can read about it in their history and their ancestors can certainly speak of it.

Those of color who are in their 50's and above might be closer to being able to claim to have experienced it. However, at an age of 50 and below, I doubt highly any minority group can claim most of them have been "persecuted".

[ERCougar]

Most LDS have no clue what persecution is.

I don't necessarily disagree with you here, as I think one of the keys to happiness is regaining perspective on the many ways each of our lives have been blessed. But we could say the same thing about Americans and poverty--most Americans have no clue what poverty really is. Or that most African Americans today have no idea what real racism is.

Just because things are better now doesn't mean that people don't feel it nor that we should remain oblivious to anything but the most egregious examples. Persecution, like everything else, is in the eye of the beholder and is relative. I think the best focus for the lesson, as with every topic, should be on things we have control over, i.e. what ways are we inadvertently persecuting others and how can we help others around us in their "persecutions".

[Indy Coug]

Well, I lived in a country where LDS members were imprisoned and some were deported (like our Stake President) due to bringing in personal religious materials and being accused falsely of proselyting, so I've actually witnessed some degree of religious persecution.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I don't necessarily disagree with you here, as I think one of the keys to happiness is regaining perspective on the many ways each of our lives have been blessed. But we could say the same thing about Americans and poverty--most Americans have no clue what poverty really is. Or that most African Americans today have no idea what real racism is.

Just because things are better now doesn't mean that people don't feel it nor that we should remain oblivious to anything but the most egregious examples. Persecution, like everything else, is in the eye of the beholder and is relative. I think the best focus for the lesson, as with every topic, should be on things we have control over, i.e. what ways are we inadvertently persecuting others and how can we help others around us in their "persecutions".

My problem with the persecution topic is that it seems to promote a culture of victimhood. The whiners come out and have a field day.

I can guarantee you that someone in our HPG will bring up the story of the gay rights protesters at the LA temple where someone came out and offered them umbrellas or hot chocolate or something and (according to legend), they were so shamed by this stunning act of Christianity that they all went home.

That's what passes as persecution these days. Someone doing a peaceful political demonstration in response to our political demonstrations.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think the best focus for the lesson, as with every topic, should be on things we have control over, i.e. what ways are we inadvertently persecuting others and how can we help others around us in their "persecutions".

I completely agree on this point.

[TripletDaddy]

Well, I lived in a country where LDS members were imprisoned and some were deported (like our Stake President) due to bringing in personal religious materials and being accused falsely of proselyting, so I've actually witnessed some degree of religious persecution.

You know, Indy, you would be far more effective if you skipped your traditional initial stupid post and went straight to the substantive post. Your first post was lame (as it is most of the time) because it is reactionary towards something that was never said. Nobody has said that LDS folks do not know persecution.

Settle down, relax, this is not cougarboard. Your follow-up post is actually really interesting and definitely merits further fleshing out. Why not share that story? I would certainly like to hear more, as it could definitely be helpful in my lesson prep for this coming weekend.

[All-American]

Subtly suggest that a lot of the persecution we face is of our making. Remind the brethren that a lot of the troubles the early saints ran into in Missouri, while not necessarily deserved, might have been avoided had we been better neighbors. Suggest to them that every time they run into persecution, it is an invitation from God and their fellow man to review their lives, inquire as to ways they can improve, and be better.

If endurance is nothing more than traversing a difficult path from point A to point B, it would be a futile exercise. God wouldn't have us do it just for the heck of it. The point is to come out better at the end.

[Solon]

I am teaching that lesson, as well.

I was looking over the lesson yesterday during F&T meeting and had the same impression as you....I don't want this lesson to turn into a 40 minute comment fest with story after story about how someone yelled at you as you rode your bike down the street on your mission.

There are several ideas swirling around in my head and I will flesh them out over the coming days, including

1. incorporating modern examples of religious persecution and the resulting effects (holocaust/state of Israel, decline/loss of Native American culture, etc)
2. Self-persecution as a tool of the adversary....the need to forgive and love ourselves in order to be closer to the Spirit, etc.
3. How to be empathetic to our LDS youth as they navigate through peer pressure and temptation
4. How do we persecute others, if at all, in their religious or personal beliefs?
5. obviously the scriptures are chock full of examples of persecution for righteousness sake, so I will want to incorporate that, as well.

My main concern is that this Sunday is Mother's Day. Half the men will be in Primary during second and third hour so that all the women can go to RS for a special 2-hour deal. They are doing a brunch with food and stuff. So I may not even be able to teach my lesson because I might have to hang out in Primary.

I would love to hear other approaches to this upcoming lesson. I will share some of mine as the weekend approaches. Like I said, I need to flesh out the framework, first. I am still jotting down basic concepts at this point.

Interesting coincidence, since I've been thinking about the history of LDS persecution for a few days: my parents were in town last week and they're definitely sporting a much more noticeable persecution complex. They're devout LDS, happen to live in Utah, but aren't really "bubble" people (whatever that means) since both have lived and traveled abroad extensively. I chalk it up to aging.

At any rate, during this same week, I was getting close to finishing up my Roman history with a lecture on Constantine. I've always found it interesting that Christianity went from being the "persecuted", specifically under the Great Persecution of Diocletian which lasted from 303-313 to "persecutor" in only a matter of a couple of decades. While the early examples of Christian persecution weren't against the so-called "pagans," they were against other Christians as Constantine strove to create orthodoxy. So, they cracked down on Donatists, Gnostics, and Arians. Within 80 years (reign of Theodosius), persecution of pagans was in full-force.

I think there are some parallels to be drawn, albeit cautiously, between early LDS and early Christianity in this respect. Both went from disreputable to respectable in a relatively short amount of time, and both capitalized on this new-found sanctioned status to formulate a more public, orthodox facade. I realize that I'm oversimplifying, but there's much more to the similarities than this single trend.

Not that all this informs your lesson much, but you might want to address persecution by the formerly-persecuted LDS, although you might want to steer away from touchy or sensitive modern topics. Early "gentiles" in Utah, perhaps, or the Blackhawk war, to underscore the need for tolerance and memory.

[Solon]

My problem with the persecution topic is that it seems to promote a culture of victimhood. The whiners come out and have a field day.

I can guarantee you that someone in our HPG will bring up the story of the gay rights protesters at the LA temple where someone came out and offered them umbrellas or hot chocolate or something and (according to legend), they were so shamed by this stunning act of Christianity that they all went home.

That's what passes as persecution these days. Someone doing a peaceful political demonstration in response to our political demonstrations.

For the record, I can attest to the truthfulness of the offering-umbrellas-to-protestors story. It took place at the DC temple in November. My father-in-law was holding the umbrellas. They weren't stunned, but they were a little perplexed (so he said). The rain probably killed the feeble protest more than their act of charity.