Responding to Persecution

[SeattleUte]

Porn doesn't kill marriages. People kill marriages.

Exactly. I see you're a First Amendment guy.

[DU Ute]

Or with women that (ostensibly, at least) are on an equal footing with their male counterparts in many nations instead of being naught more than baby-producing vaginas?

I think there are a few people out there who see this as an indication of the increasing wickedness of the world.

[TripletDaddy]

Exactly. I see you're a First Amendment guy.

I find it interesting the the extreme right wants to blame porn for all that ails us, yet they defend guns with the mantra that guns in and of themselves are not problematic at all.

[SeattleUte]

I find it interesting the the extreme right wants to blame porn for all that ails us, yet they defend guns with the mantra that guns in and of themselves are not problematic at all.

Exactly. Nice irony. Actually, I think Lebowski linked an article once that presented data appearing to show that as porn has become more widely available via the Internet sex crimes have decreased (it's entirely possible I'm not remembering this exacly right; but notice no one outside the religious right blames porn for all kinds of criminal behavior as many feminists, etc. did in the eighties; that idea seems now kind of quaint).

[SoCalCoug]

Subtly suggest that a lot of the persecution we face is of our making. Remind the brethren that a lot of the troubles the early saints ran into in Missouri, while not necessarily deserved, might have been avoided had we been better neighbors. Suggest to them that every time they run into persecution, it is an invitation from God and their fellow man to review their lives, inquire as to ways they can improve, and be better.

I actually touched on this a little this last week - in the lesson on tithing (sections 119 & 120), I talked a little about the Kirtland Safety Society for some historical background - apparently, church members back then, as well as today, ascribe religious persecution to the failure of the Saints to secure a bank charter from the Ohio legislature - this is only partly true. Of course, there was a man who was an active church opponent (Grandison Newell) who had influence with a few legislators (like 3) against the bank charter, but in reality, that legislature only granted 1 bank charter in 1836-1837.

Sometimes, persecution is more perceived than actual.

[JohnnyLingo]

SeattleUte and Triplet, together at last. It's so good to see after all that fighting.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Exactly. Nice irony. Actually, I think Lebowski linked an article once that presented data appearing to show that as porn has become more widely available via the Internet sex crimes have decreased (it's entirely possible I'm not remembering this exacly right; but notice no one outside the religious right blames porn for all kinds of criminal behavior as many feminists, etc. did in the eighties; that idea seems now kind of quaint).

Yep. Huge drop in sexual violence. Here is the article:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print.../adultery-porn

between 1980 and 2004, an era in which porn became more available, and in more varieties, the rate of reported sexual violence dropped, and by 85 percent.

[DU Ute]

I find it interesting the the extreme right wants to blame porn for all that ails us, yet they defend guns with the mantra that guns in and of themselves are not problematic at all.

I find it interesting the the extreme left wants to blame guns for all that ails us, yet they defend porn with the mantra that porn in and of itself is not problematic at all.

[SeattleUte]

SeattleUte and Triplet, together at last. It's so good to see after all that fighting.

I guarantee you this. Einstein, Lewontin, Coyne, and Dawkins agree with 3D and me. I can't speak for Pelagius on this one. If memory serves me Jesus is silent on porn, though he did address the subject tangentially in discussing the status of prostitutes in God's eyes. I bet if Christ had lived in our age neither 3D nor I would have a problem with his observation on the issue.

[JohnnyLingo]

Yep. Huge drop in sexual violence. Here is the article:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print.../adultery-porn

A follows B therefore B caused A.

[DU Ute]

Exactly. Nice irony. Actually, I think Lebowski linked an article once that presented data appearing to show that as porn has become more widely available via the Internet sex crimes have decreased (it's entirely possible I'm not remembering this exacly right; but notice no one outside the religious right blames porn for all kinds of criminal behavior as many feminists, etc. did in the eighties; that idea seems now kind of quaint).

I'm sure the multi-billion dollar advertising industry will be glad to hear repeated exposure to suggestive imagery does not influence behavior. It will save them a boatload of money.

[SeattleUte]

I find it interesting the the extreme left wants to blame guns for all that ails us, yet they defend porn with the mantra that porn in and of itself is not problematic at all.

No one here has said porn is unproblematic.

[TripletDaddy]

I find it interesting the the extreme left wants to blame guns for all that ails us, yet they defend porn with the mantra that porn in and of itself is not problematic at all.

I have never heard an argument that porn is not problematic. Perhaps you can expound on that. Admittedly, I haven't heard every argument.

For the gun argument, you can look at several threads here and on CG. Plenty of folks think gun ownership is not only fine, but a civic duty.

[Jeff Lebowski]

A follows B therefore B caused A.

from the next line:

Correlation isn’t necessarily causation, but the sharpness of the decline at least suggests that porn may reduce sexual violence, by providing an outlet for some potential sex offenders. (Indeed, the best way to deter a rapist might be to hook him up with a high-speed Internet connection: in a 2006 study, the Clemson economist Todd Kendall found that a 10 percent increase in Internet access is associated with a 7 percent decline in reported rapes.)

[TripletDaddy]

A follows B therefore B caused A.

A follows B?