Rumors of 19 year old females going on missions

[Jeff Lebowski]

We've had sisters for the first time since I've lived here for the last 6 months. I could not disagree with you more, the sisters we have had are energetic, outgoing, polite it is almost disappointing how they compare to the elders. We've had 5 different sisters and thus far it has been universally true. Also I think the MP here must emphasize a super firm hand shake from the sisters so they don't seem weak or something, they shake hands like they are trying to crush you. ldc speculates that they do it to ward off elders from fantasizing about handies from them.

Your wife seems to have some impure thoughts going on there. Perhaps you need to share with her the foolproof method of singing a hymn when Satan puts those thoughts in her mind.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

An acquaintance of mine got sent home a few months early from his mission. We became friends as we adjusted to post-mission life and wondered why we didn't hang out more in HS since we were in the same graduating class and had several mutual friends. We made plans to room together that Fall at BYU. (I was transferring and he was planning on re-enrolling). From a timing standpoint, the six-month wait would work for him. However, he was informed by BYU that he had lost his full-ride academic scholarship due to his breaking the HC while on his mission. The guy then changed plans and enrolled at State U. The following year, he was ex-communicated for a futher violation related to the lone incident that got him sent home early from his mission.

The bolded part is only true if he lied about what he was sent home for. Admitted to sex with a girl, denied the abortion? If he just hooked up with a girl on the mission and got sent home he received his punishment then, they don't follow up with you later and decide to punish you more.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I'm not the one who said it, but I whole heartedly agree. Maybe it's just that we're seeing a bigger sample, but some of the sisters I've run into (and wow there are a grip of sisters- it seems like I hardly see Elders anymore) seem like these shy, mousy, socially backwards girls who can't string together a cogent gospel message rather than the confident, earnest troopers I would stereotype sister mish's as being.

We've had sisters for the first time since I've lived here for the last 6 months. I could not disagree with you more, the sisters we have had are energetic, outgoing, polite it is almost disappointing how they compare to the elders. We've had 5 different sisters and thus far it has been universally true. Also I think the MP here must emphasize a super firm hand shake from the sisters so they don't seem weak or something, they shake hands like they are trying to crush you. ldc speculates that they do it to ward off elders from fantasizing about handies from them.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

I'll tell you. It would have resulted in two excommunications, not one.

Paperback?!

[FMCoug]

Six months. You can appeal, but appeals are rarely granted (unless you are an athlete).

The explanation is "If you are too sick to be on a mission, you are too sick to be at BYU" which is pure BS of course. It is a ridiculous rule. The objective of the rule is clearly to apply a form of punishment to help deter people from coming home early.

What assholes.

Maybe they think they are creating the University of Enoch.

[Uncle Ted]

I remember being in a regional training for YM leaders at least 4 years ago where they talked about more YM coming home early from missions. At that time they spoke about the importance of getting kids to go on the weeklong scout/high adventure camp to give them some experience away from home. Seems like they attributed most of the kids coming home (or coming home without a medical problem?) as being due to homesickness.

With that in mind, I do wonder if anxiety, insomnia, depression, etc. could really be a manifestation of homesickness symptoms that are then put into a box to describe something that would make it "OK" to return home. They simply have mental health issues.

I kind of wonder how much of this is due to being SO connected to everyone and everything in this day and age. Kids with smart phones know what all of their friends are doing in an instant. They are texting parents and friends everytime there is a change in plans. Even on campouts I'll see kids sneak phones along in their bag (often at the encouragement of parents) to phone or text home each evening and let them know how they are doing. I could certainly see a kid who was that connected to everyone and who was suddenly cut off from it experiencing anxiety. Not a surprise at all.

Maybe this is the real reason missionaries are starting to use Facebook and getting iPads.

I also believe that most mental health issues tend to manifest themselves in the late teens to early 20's, if I remember my DSM correctly. So I wonder how much of this is taking kids and putting them in a stressful situation - likely the most stress most have ever experienced - which then results in the onset of those mental health symptoms that they were perhaps preconditioned or susceptible to having at some point in their life.

Finally - I've often said that going on a mission is not for everyone. I don't ascribe to the idea that you just need to get the kid out there and then they'll catch the spirit - I think they can create too many problems for kids who are there for the right reasons. Personally, I hope my kids choose to go and we talk as if that is the plan - but I also let them know that it is their decision whether or not to go and when. But I believe it is an opportunity for growth that can't be had anywhere else.

In my ward, in the 10+ years we've lived here there have been 2 kids who came home early. The first was 5 years ago or so. His father died of cancer while he was gone, and ultimately he began to really struggle with depression. The week before he came home the Bishop made a big deal of announcing that he was returning a little early (no more than 6 months, if I recall correctly) but that he had received an honorable release and was struggling with some health issues. And that he should be welcomed home and supported as much as possible. Within 6-8 months of returning home he had committed suicide. Tragic for the family.

The second kid came home less than a year ago. He couldn't explain it, he just had a feeling that he needed to be home. So he came home. They (the MP, Bishop, Stake President, etc.) all tried to convince him to stay and even to return to his mission before he came home and for the first couple of months after he did. But he was convinced that he needed to be home. Everyone welcomed him and was glad to see him - he had been gone for more than a year so I'm not sure how many people even knew it was early (the Bishop didn't say a word to anyone aside from the Ward Council in this instance.)

Very sad.

[Uncle Ted]

Maybe. Or one excommunication and another not being able to partake of the sacrament for two months.

[wuapinmon]

I'd love to facilitate plenty of alternative foreign country experiences for my kids in lieu of a mission if that's what they choose.

I hope if mine go that they go abroad. Nothing says branching out like all the kids from here in Pocatello, Ogden, Provo, and Denver. If they don't go, I hope they'll do some kind of volunteer work abroad for at least a year. I'll subsidize that.

[Topper]

Six months. You can appeal, but appeals are rarely granted (unless you are an athlete).

The explanation is "If you are too sick to be on a mission, you are too sick to be at BYU" which is pure BS of course. It is a ridiculous rule. The objective of the rule is clearly to apply a form of punishment to help deter people from coming home early.

It is a terrible rule.

[CardiacCoug]

I'm big on missions. I'm also big on this new missionary age change. I say take it another step, and tell the girls they can go when they're 18 also. Send them all out when they graduate, boys and girls.

But let's also not set them up for failure. Let's scale back the expectations and the guilt trips for stats and numbers. Let's be realistic about what activities they have available to do with their time, and not grind them down with meaningless, nonproductive work for more than a few hours a day. Give them other options, like service. If homesickness and loneliness is a problem, then let's reevaluate the rules about how often they can contact parents.

I don't know if it's true that more missionaries are coming home with depression and mental health issues because they can't hack it, but if it's true, then let's not fix or blame it on the supply side, let's fix it on the demand side (yeah i know that comparison didn't really work--oh well). Missions are damn hard. It's OK to make them just a little easier.

I agree completely with the idea that missions are damn hard and it wouldn't hurt to make them a little easier. And my mission experience was incredible in a lot of ways but on the whole being the cynic that I am I'm not sure it was really worth it.

This of course makes me a piece of shit, but deep down I would be thrilled if none of my kids choose to go on missions. I'll support whatever decision each kid makes of course. I agree that living abroad is an incredible experience (and even better when you don't have to wear a nametag and do missionary work) and I'd love to facilitate plenty of alternative foreign country experiences for my kids in lieu of a mission if that's what they choose.

[Pelado]

I kind of wonder how much of this is due to being SO connected to everyone and everything in this day and age. Kids with smart phones know what all of their friends are doing in an instant. They are texting parents and friends everytime there is a change in plans. Even on campouts I'll see kids sneak phones along in their bag (often at the encouragement of parents) to phone or text home each evening and let them know how they are doing. I could certainly see a kid who was that connected to everyone and who was suddenly cut off from it experiencing anxiety. Not a surprise at all.

So this summer my two oldest kids had a couple stints out of state with aunts/uncles/cousins for two weeks at a time. My 6-year-old daughter was happy to talk to me whenever I called, though I didn't really get any reports of homesickness. My 9-year-old son preferred not to talk to me at all. Potential reasons:

a) He's very independent
b) I'm a terrible dad
c) All of the above

[Paperback Writer]

I'll tell you. It would have resulted in two excommunications, not one.

Maybe. Or one excommunication and another not being able to partake of the sacrament for two months.

[Eddie]

I remember being in a regional training for YM leaders at least 4 years ago where they talked about more YM coming home early from missions. At that time they spoke about the importance of getting kids to go on the weeklong scout/high adventure camp to give them some experience away from home. Seems like they attributed most of the kids coming home (or coming home without a medical problem?) as being due to homesickness.

With that in mind, I do wonder if anxiety, insomnia, depression, etc. could really be a manifestation of homesickness symptoms that are then put into a box to describe something that would make it "OK" to return home. They simply have mental health issues.

I kind of wonder how much of this is due to being SO connected to everyone and everything in this day and age. Kids with smart phones know what all of their friends are doing in an instant. They are texting parents and friends everytime there is a change in plans. Even on campouts I'll see kids sneak phones along in their bag (often at the encouragement of parents) to phone or text home each evening and let them know how they are doing. I could certainly see a kid who was that connected to everyone and who was suddenly cut off from it experiencing anxiety. Not a surprise at all.

I also believe that most mental health issues tend to manifest themselves in the late teens to early 20's, if I remember my DSM correctly. So I wonder how much of this is taking kids and putting them in a stressful situation - likely the most stress most have ever experienced - which then results in the onset of those mental health symptoms that they were perhaps preconditioned or susceptible to having at some point in their life.

Finally - I've often said that going on a mission is not for everyone. I don't ascribe to the idea that you just need to get the kid out there and then they'll catch the spirit - I think they can create too many problems for kids who are there for the right reasons. Personally, I hope my kids choose to go and we talk as if that is the plan - but I also let them know that it is their decision whether or not to go and when. But I believe it is an opportunity for growth that can't be had anywhere else.

In my ward, in the 10+ years we've lived here there have been 2 kids who came home early. The first was 5 years ago or so. His father died of cancer while he was gone, and ultimately he began to really struggle with depression. The week before he came home the Bishop made a big deal of announcing that he was returning a little early (no more than 6 months, if I recall correctly) but that he had received an honorable release and was struggling with some health issues. And that he should be welcomed home and supported as much as possible. Within 6-8 months of returning home he had committed suicide. Tragic for the family.

The second kid came home less than a year ago. He couldn't explain it, he just had a feeling that he needed to be home. So he came home. They (the MP, Bishop, Stake President, etc.) all tried to convince him to stay and even to return to his mission before he came home and for the first couple of months after he did. But he was convinced that he needed to be home. Everyone welcomed him and was glad to see him - he had been gone for more than a year so I'm not sure how many people even knew it was early (the Bishop didn't say a word to anyone aside from the Ward Council in this instance.)

[falafel]

An acquaintance of mine got sent home a few months early from his mission. We became friends as we adjusted to post-mission life and wondered why we didn't hang out more in HS since we were in the same graduating class and had several mutual friends. We made plans to room together that Fall at BYU. (I was transferring and he was planning on re-enrolling). From a timing standpoint, the six-month wait would work for him. However, he was informed by BYU that he had lost his full-ride academic scholarship due to his breaking the HC while on his mission. The guy then changed plans and enrolled at State U. The following year, he was ex-communicated for a futher violation related to the lone incident that got him sent home early from his mission.

I then lost track of him for a long time until I met up with some of my fellow HS classmates. Found out from one of my non-Mormon friends that this guy became very active in the anti-Mormon internet community. This friend somewhat understood why he "got kicked out of the Mormon Missionary sevice" but thought someone should get a second chance or three-strikes. What my friend couldn't comprehend was why he would lose an academic scholarship. In his words, "You realize that [he] was smarter than either one of us (my friend is a MD)". I've since wondered how different the outcome would have been if he would have been able to keep his scholarship and re-enroll at BYU.

I'll tell you. It would have resulted in two excommunications, not one.

[Paperback Writer]

It is most definitely the former and not the latter.

An acquaintance of mine got sent home a few months early from his mission. We became friends as we adjusted to post-mission life and wondered why we didn't hang out more in HS since we were in the same graduating class and had several mutual friends. We made plans to room together that Fall at BYU. (I was transferring and he was planning on re-enrolling). From a timing standpoint, the six-month wait would work for him. However, he was informed by BYU that he had lost his full-ride academic scholarship due to his breaking the HC while on his mission. The guy then changed plans and enrolled at State U. The following year, he was ex-communicated for a futher violation related to the lone incident that got him sent home early from his mission.

I then lost track of him for a long time until I met up with some of my fellow HS classmates. Found out from one of my non-Mormon friends that this guy became very active in the anti-Mormon internet community. This friend somewhat understood why he "got kicked out of the Mormon Missionary sevice" but thought someone should get a second chance or three-strikes. What my friend couldn't comprehend was why he would lose an academic scholarship. In his words, "You realize that [he] was smarter than either one of us (my friend is a MD)". I've since wondered how different the outcome would have been if he would have been able to keep his scholarship and re-enroll at BYU.