The Calling of a Bishop

[jay santos]

Cynical POS Jay Santos checking in here...

It's interesting that callings like ward missionaries, scouts, primary, nursery get rejected all the time. I have heard plenty of anecdotes that a bishop has called older couples to missions and been rejected or called people to serve as temple workers and been denied. Yet I have never heard once of a man rejecting a call to be bishop.

I wonder how real those tears were. Or I wonder why a husband would accept a calling like that when his wife was that upset over it. Because I'm pretty sure if that same man was called to be the scout master and his wife was that upset about it and he was that busy, he'd probably just turn it down.

[Surfah]

I was 15 and the oldest of 4 when my dad was called to be bishop. He sat us all down and told us he had received the call. He told us the time suck it would be. He told us of the unfair expectations and stereotypes that would be heaped upon us. He told us that we would have to help mom out more. And he told us that if any of us couldn't support him in this calling he would decline. We all gave him our support and blessing and he accepted the call.

[lambdacoug]

I was 15 and the oldest of 4 when my dad was called to be bishop. He sat us all down and told us he had received the call. He told us the time suck it would be. He told us of the unfair expectations and stereotypes that will be heaped upon us. He told us that we would have to help mom out more. And he told us that if any of us couldn't support him in this calling he would decline. We all gave him our support and blessing and he accepted the call.

Similar story to me, but I was twelve. I never felt like he wasn't around, never felt cheated of time with him. We played chess every Sunday (until I beat him twice, then he stopped...lol). Time wasn't the issue, it was other things with my dad being bishop that sucked. So credit to him for managing to handle that calling without making us feel cheated of time with him.

[jay santos]

I was 15 and the oldest of 4 when my dad was called to be bishop. He sat us all down and told us he had received the call. He told us the time suck it would be. He told us of the unfair expectations and stereotypes that would be heaped upon us. He told us that we would have to help mom out more. And he told us that if any of us couldn't support him in this calling he would decline. We all gave him our support and blessing and he accepted the call.

I bet a lot of men do this with their family. I wonder what would happen if one of their kids said "yeah dad these next five years it's going to be important that you stay close to me. You already have a hard enough time with your busy job. I really want you to say No."

[smokymountainrain]

Cardiac doesn't believe in God either. He just likes to be antagonistic when I post this sort of thing. If I pin any one of my family members down, they'll admit that they are agnostic at heart. (I have polled them intensively by telephone.) They will also claim and rationalize belief when convenient. The white lie serves a greater good, and they believe in the greater good (the Church as a positive influence on society).

Even I could claim a belief in God if God is nature or some sort of nebulous power or order in the universe that we do not understand.

We were all agnostic while serving our missions.

I'll admit that ItchyCoug did have faith at one point. He was brainwashed by the end of his mission. He thought there was something wrong with composing a sacrament talk on paper. He was taught to "speak by the spirit" on his mission which basically meant to not prepare and then ramble off a bunch of random, poorly organized stories.

To clarify, I was saying I thought cardiac had a different opinion of Itchy's belief in God.

[Goatnapper'96]

Cardiac doesn't believe in God either. He just likes to be antagonistic when I post this sort of thing. If I pin any one of my family members down, they'll admit that they are agnostic at heart. (I have polled them intensively by telephone.) They will also claim and rationalize belief when convenient. The white lie serves a greater good, and they believe in the greater good (the Church as a positive influence on society).

Even I could claim a belief in God if God is nature or some sort of nebulous power or order in the universe that we do not understand.

We were all agnostic while serving our missions.

I'll admit that ItchyCoug did have faith at one point. He was brainwashed by the end of his mission. He thought there was something wrong with composing a sacrament talk on paper. He was taught to "speak by the spirit" on his mission which basically meant to not prepare and then ramble off a bunch of random, poorly organized stories.

I call bullshit on it all. They believe deeply, burst out in tears whenever they hum to themselves "In the Hollow of Thy Hand" in the shower and only pretend to be rational believers weighing all the positives and negatives and after running it through Peachtree concluding it is for the better.

You would cry too at "In the Hollow of Thy Hand" but that Crimson Jezebel that you wanna tap on a regular basis will mock you incessantly.

You are just jealous you don't possess the natural leadership instincts of ItchyCoug so you throw rotten vegetables from the gallery of nothingness!

[Goatnapper'96]

I used to think that calling an older, retired person as bishop would be better. Now I'm not sure. Younger bishops relate better to the youth and spend time building up the youth while older bishops spend their time talking about reactivating adults that don't want to be reactivated, at least that is my experience.

Also in my experience, older/retired bishops assume that everyone else has just as much time as they do so they tend to call and message you during the day and ask you to do things during the week even though they can be done just as easily during the 2nd hour of church.

And lastly, older/retired bishops have time to micromanage things, which sucks for auxiliary presidents. I'd take a younger bishop that lets the presidents run their auxiliaries on their own instead of a bishop that wants to approve every single activity or every meal you'll eat on a campout.

The problem isn't the type of person best qualified to deal with the time demands of the calling. The problem is how the calling has evolved to require time and effort in areas that, IMO, have nothing to do with the calling. There are a lot of reasons for why it has evolved this way. Jay hits on one that mankind loves status and as more and more non-spiritual issues got heaped on Bishops too many of them, sometimes motivated by pride and sometimes motivated by genuine concern, seemed to assume those responsibilities all too gladly.

Now saying that since I doubt our culture is going to change about the responsibilities given/and or assumed I think it best to call men who have the time to deal with it.

If you people would just leave those bishops alone concerning your intents to get snipped, then all would be well!

[San Juan Sun]

If I pin any one of my family members down, they'll admit that they are agnostic at heart. (I have polled them intensively by telephone.)

Maybe they play the agnostic card just to get you off their backs? Intensive phone interviews about your faith level seems tedious.

[jay santos]

If you people would just leave those bishops alone concerning your intents to get snipped, then all would be well!

No kidding. I am shocked on a regular basis when I hear people say "we went to the bishop and he told us ________". Or "did you ask the bishop? you should ask him." Or in a calling "will you ask the bishop if it's OK?"

Real people, people you don't think are completely incompetent, people who are not total complete losers, people who are not in the bottom one percentile in being helpless human beings.

[Green Monstah]

My current bishop is the right demographic--young empty nester; still working; very energetic, takes his wife to everything he can.

[Goatnapper'96]

No kidding. I am shocked on a regular basis when I hear people say "we went to the bishop and he told us ________". Or "did you ask the bishop? you should ask him." Or in a calling "will you ask the bishop if it's OK?"

Real people, people you don't think are completely incompetent, people who are not total complete losers, people who are not in the bottom one percentile in being helpless human beings.

I feel sorry for them but I also agree with you that if so many did not love the status of being the great solver of everyone's problems, buoyed up by President Eyring last tear jerker about the wisdom suddenly being gone the moment he was released, the calling would not have evolved in this manner.

[Paperback Writer]

No kidding. I am shocked on a regular basis when I hear people say "we went to the bishop and he told us ________". Or "did you ask the bishop? you should ask him." Or in a calling "will you ask the bishop if it's OK?"

Real people, people you don't think are completely incompetent, people who are not total complete losers, people who are not in the bottom one percentile in being helpless human beings.

Some of that is a direct product of correlation and of some Bishops micromanaging. Nothing like investing the time and energy into planning an activity, keeping leadership informed, having a disgruntled parent complain, and then have the Bishop interpret the handbook in an unexpected manner and nix the whole thing. So the next time around, people will ask the Bishop, "Is this OK? How about that?" They want to make their own decisions but feel like they are not allowed to.

I was serving in YM when the youth had an idea for a lip sync activity. The YM/YW leaders approved the songs. However, one YW didn't get her way and complained to her Mom who then went to the Bishop. He decided to review all the songs and determined that only Primary or Disney type songs should be used. Problem is that this happened after the youth had been practicing their lip snyc skits for three weeks and had to start over a week before the live performance. So the next time around, the Bishop is spending his time reading sheets of lyrics. Each quorum/group submitting three differrent songs in case there are objections. Yeah, a Bishop really needs to spend his time doing that but he created the problem.

One of the problems in my old ward was that too many people had access to the church handbook. So when they didn't agree with a decision made by a leader, they would go to the Bishop citing the handbook. Another example, I got busted by another parent for taking an 11-year son on a Deacon's campout. A Dad had pulled out at the last minute because his wife insisted they go out on a date (they still sent their deacon son on the campout). I got a panicked call from the Scoutmaster asking if I could help out and go camping; otherwise, the campout would have to be canceled. My wife was out town with our daughter and our older kids were at EFY. So I was at home with my 11-year old son and he didn't want to be at home alone. The Scoutmaster said it was OK for me to bring my Boy Scout 11-year old son on the campout with me. We packed and had a good time on the campout. Someone complained to the Bishop that an 11-year was brought on a Deacon's campout in violation of the handbook. The Scoutmaster got in trouble for allowing it and I got talked to as well. I asked what I should have done and was told I should have declined or found a place for my son to spend the night (had I been thinking more clearly I would have brought up his several sermons on the evils of sleepovers).

This story should make SoonerCoug proud. He needs to become active again because he might run out of stories someday. Serving as Scoutmaster would change all that rather quickly.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Some of that is a direct product of correlation and of some Bishops micromanaging. Nothing like investing the time and energy into planning an activity, keeping leadership informed, having a disgruntled parent complain, and then have the Bishop interpret the handbook in an unexpected manner and nix the whole thing. So the next time around, people will ask the Bishop, "Is this OK? How about that?" They want to make their own decisions but feel like they are not allowed to.

I was serving in YM when the youth had an idea for a lip sync activity. The YM/YW leaders approved the songs. However, one YW didn't get her way and complained to her Mom who then went to the Bishop. He decided to review all the songs and determined that only Primary or Disney type songs should be used. Problem is that this happened after the youth had been practicing their lip snyc skits for three weeks and had to start over a week before the live performance. So the next time around, the Bishop is spending his time reading sheets of lyrics. Each quorum/group submitting three differrent songs in case there are objections. Yeah, a Bishop really needs to spend his time doing that but he created the problem.

One of the problems in my old ward was that too many people had access to the church handbook. So when they didn't agree with a decision made by a leader, they would go to the Bishop citing the handbook. Another example, I got busted by another parent for taking an 11-year son on a Deacon's campout. A Dad had pulled out at the last minute because his wife insisted they go out on a date (they still sent their deacon son on the campout). I got a panicked call from the Scoutmaster asking if I could help out and go camping; otherwise, the campout would have to be canceled. My wife was out town with our daughter and our older kids were at EFY. So I was at home with my 11-year old son and he didn't want to be at home alone. The Scoutmaster said it was OK for me to bring my Boy Scout 11-year old son on the campout with me. We packed and had a good time on the campout. Someone complained to the Bishop that an 11-year was brought on a Deacon's campout in violation of the handbook. The Scoutmaster got in trouble for allowing it and I got talked to as well. I asked what I should have done and was told I should have declined or found a place for my son to spend the night (had I been thinking more clearly I would have brought up his several sermons on the evils of sleepovers).

This story should make SoonerCoug proud. He needs to become active again because he might run out of stories someday. Serving as Scoutmaster would change all that rather quickly.

Yikes. The handbook is turning into the Mormon Talmud. I see stuff like this happening more and more in our stake.

[byu71]

Some of that is a direct product of correlation and of some Bishops micromanaging. Nothing like investing the time and energy into planning an activity, keeping leadership informed, having a disgruntled parent complain, and then have the Bishop interpret the handbook in an unexpected manner and nix the whole thing. So the next time around, people will ask the Bishop, "Is this OK? How about that?" They want to make their own decisions but feel like they are not allowed to.

I was serving in YM when the youth had an idea for a lip sync activity. The YM/YW leaders approved the songs. However, one YW didn't get her way and complained to her Mom who then went to the Bishop. He decided to review all the songs and determined that only Primary or Disney type songs should be used. Problem is that this happened after the youth had been practicing their lip snyc skits for three weeks and had to start over a week before the live performance. So the next time around, the Bishop is spending his time reading sheets of lyrics. Each quorum/group submitting three differrent songs in case there are objections. Yeah, a Bishop really needs to spend his time doing that but he created the problem.

One of the problems in my old ward was that too many people had access to the church handbook. So when they didn't agree with a decision made by a leader, they would go to the Bishop citing the handbook. Another example, I got busted by another parent for taking an 11-year son on a Deacon's campout. A Dad had pulled out at the last minute because his wife insisted they go out on a date (they still sent their deacon son on the campout). I got a panicked call from the Scoutmaster asking if I could help out and go camping; otherwise, the campout would have to be canceled. My wife was out town with our daughter and our older kids were at EFY. So I was at home with my 11-year old son and he didn't want to be at home alone. The Scoutmaster said it was OK for me to bring my Boy Scout 11-year old son on the campout with me. We packed and had a good time on the campout. Someone complained to the Bishop that an 11-year was brought on a Deacon's campout in violation of the handbook. The Scoutmaster got in trouble for allowing it and I got talked to as well. I asked what I should have done and was told I should have declined or found a place for my son to spend the night (had I been thinking more clearly I would have brought up his several sermons on the evils of sleepovers).

This story should make SoonerCoug proud. He needs to become active again because he might run out of stories someday. Serving as Scoutmaster would change all that rather quickly.

It never ceases to amaze me how one or two or even 4 people can mess everything up. Because of the strict nature of the organization, extreme folks have a lot of clout. This would be true in any organization structured as such. I think it is the personality of these people not necessarily their faithfulness to the principles.

Take the lady and her daughter in this example. The rules were used to placate a spoiled little girl. Boy is she in for a surprise in the real world.

[Portland Ute]

He needs to become active again because he might run out of stories someday.

I doubt it.