Article: Confessions of an Ex-Mormon

[SeattleUte]

Careful. Your jealousy is showing again.

I've never aspired to write what he writes. I might as well be jealous of Stephanie Meyer or Orson Scott Card, also Mormons who have actually become very rich writing. Writing is such a personal and singular experience, certainly for me, that I've never felt the tug of professional jealousy you allude to. On the contrary, every writer that breaks through is an inspiration. I haven't much felt professional jealousy in my remunerative work either though, for a number of years, anyway. Part of not being bitter is to be happy in your own skin, some advice I've given to BYU football fans.

Also, breaking into big time published fiction is about as easy as breaking into hollywood. A lot of talented writers out there are waiting for a break, and while you have to be good, it's a lot about connections. No doubt our cheery exmo has talent (not huge Cormac McCarthy or David Mitchell talent but certainly enough to feed himself and put a roof over his head writing), but in case you didn't notice, this guy's father in law was Thomas McGuane. Credit him for marrying into just the right connections for his chosen profession.

[kimchicoug]

I don't get the hate I see from segments of the mo and exmo groups I encounter. Having that much hate has to be exhausting.

[SeattleUte]

I found it funny. It reminded me of how I would respond to some wanker complaining after his first El Jefe suspension back in my late Cougarboard days.

All of the progmo fawning over the article cried out for a terse counterpoint.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I've never aspired to write what he writes. I might as well be jealous of Stephanie Meyer or Orson Scott Card, also Mormons who have actually become very rich writing. Writing is such a personal and singular experience, certainly for me, that I've never felt the tug of professional jealousy you allude to. On the contrary, every writer that breaks through is an inspiration. I haven't much felt professional jealousy in my remunerative work either though, for a number of years, anyway. Part of not being bitter is to be happy in your own skin, some advice I've given to BYU football fans.

Also, breaking into big time published fiction is about as easy as breaking into hollywood. A lot of talented writers out there are waiting for a break, and while you have to be good, it's a lot about connections. No doubt our cheery exmo has talent (not huge Cormac McCarthy or David Mitchell talent but certainly enough to feed himself and put a roof over his head writing), but in case you didn't notice, this guy's father in law was Thomas McGuane. Credit him for marrying into just the right connections for his chosen profession.

So you aren't jealous, but this guy obviously pulled some strings to get where he is? Gotcha.

[LA Ute]

You don't need any more lectures on what the exmo community needs to do. But I'll give you one more freebie. This guy's article comes across pretty raw and real. Almost everyone can look back at a job or an ex-wife or a city they lived in, or whatever and find both good and bad.

The exmo community comes across so overwhelmingly negative and petty, it's enough to push borderlanders back into the church.

Church finances, youth camp outs, church meetings, doctrine on eternal families, wedding ceremonies, you name it, exmo's hate it ALL. We're going to have a 24th of July party this Saturday morning with Primary kids riding bikes and scooters in a parade around the neighborhood. It's one of the coolest things you'll see, and I can just imagine a crowd of exmo's ripping the shit out of this party for about a dozen reasons.

You've modified your statement to refer only to some exmos, so I think it is valid. FWIW, I've always admired and tried to emulate your compassion for both sides of this divide. It's uncommon, I think, and difficult to achieve and maintain.

Maybe my perspective will help me explain why I say that. I grew up in a TBM family (and am TBM myself, to the extent I understand what "TBM" means). There are four of us children, with ancestry that includes early pioneers on my father's side, both pioneers and apostates on my mother's side, and outright Mormon-haters (my mom's father and most of her siblings). When my mom married my dad, grandpa refused to give her a wedding and was pretty much dragged to the wedding breakfast at the Lion House. In the group photo, there is one unmistakably angry face.

One of my two older sisters left the church in her late teens. I don't recall any out-and-out fights about that, but I was 10 years younger than she so may have missed a lot. What I do recall, among my earliest memories, is seeing my parents, in family prayers, pleading that she would be touched in some way that would help her come back. Her life has been kind of an odyssey, and she did return to intense activity in the church for about 15 years, then left again about 15 years ago, this time seemingly for good. I am as close to her as any of my siblings, probably a little closer. We share many of the same personality characteristics and loves. She is a marathoner (multiple Boston runs), has a Ph.D. in Communications and I'm very proud of her. Through all of that I remember most my parents' unconditional love for my sister, and her love for them. I know she's often felt excluded from weddings and other such events, but we've all kind of worked out our peace with one another.

Now I have a son who's an unbeliever. I don't think he considers himself an "ex," at least not yet, but he's pretty candid about not believing. We are good friends and have a deeply loving relationship. He and I have much in common and have uncannily similar personalities. And yes, I find myself and my wife, just like my own parents, continually pleading in prayer that he will be touched somehow to give the church another try.

So our own journey with "the divide" is just beginning. We have come to terms on the big issues -- his mom and I are prepared for his attitude never to change, but he knows what we wish for him, and we talk about that with him. It's understood. We also know that he is going to do what he believes is right for him.

So many of you who have left probably already know that there are family members who, like my folks and like my wife and me, are trying to approach the issue with integrity. You know they are praying for you, privately or not. At the same time, you are just trying to make sense of it all and to deal with the feelings that come from disappointing your parents, among so many other feelings that I can only imagine. I hope your families are allowing you to live your lives with integrity and not to participate in a church whose teachings you don't believe. We're trying to do that with our son.

Integrity on both sides of the divide: it's a tricky tightrope to walk together. God bless all those who are really trying.

[SeattleUte]

So you aren't jealous, but this guy obviously pulled some strings to get where he is? Gotcha.

lol it's not jealousy I'm just stating the obvious. Having a famous novelist for father in law helps. Of course the requisite talent, work ethick, etc. is also required. Do you think Keefer Sutherland necessarily would have been a famous actor without the Donald connection?

[UtahDan]

I'd expect there to be hurt feelings, at least at first. But I expect most "lifers," as you say, to continue to treat the disaffected as the loved family member they have always been, assuming that the disaffected doesn't become a jerk about it.

I have no problem with you saying what you think ought to be the case. You're just not basing your comments about what is on any real evidence. As I say, these things unfold predictably within a range. Even under the best circumstances, it is difficult for everyone. In many cases it causes irreparable damage no matter how the disaffected person acts. In other cases that person makes things much worse than they need to, or someone in their family does. But ho hum is not a common reaction.

[UtahDan]

Integrity on both sides of the divide: it's a tricky tightrope to walk together. God bless all those who are really trying.

Amen to all of what you said.

EDIT: And since we are bearing our souls here, when you finally get comfortable with your identity as a Ute (which, as the BYU faithful have always suspected, really is a path to apostasy) I will be there for you.

[Donuthole]

I have no problem with you saying what you think ought to be the case. You're just not basing your comments about what is on any real evidence. As I say, these things unfold predictably within a range. Even under the best circumstances, it is difficult for everyone. In many cases it causes irreparable damage no matter how the disaffected person acts. In other cases that person makes things much worse than they need to, or someone in their family does. But ho hum is not a common reaction.

If Jacob is guilty of this, then so are you. You can't go to a customer service complaint website, read thousands of complaints about a company's customer service, and then claim that it isn't common not to complain about that company's service. The people who aren't complaining about it, well, they aren't complaining about it.

In other words, the fact that you have read thousands of stories about peoples' difficult break ups with the Church don't prove in the slightest that it's a common or uncommon reaction. It proves that it's a common reaction for the people who go to rfm to post about it.

[RobinFinderson]

I don't get it, SU. Like you, I prefer McCarthy, but Kirn is a quality writer.

[Pheidippides]

I've only skimmed the silliness of the last few pages but I see almost zero difference between exmos and ubermos. Both think they have this amazing light an knowledge everyone simply must have, both aggressively proselytize it, and both are baffled for some reason when nobody cares and/or won't believe in the face of their proffered evidences, writing off the unbeliever as stupid, naive, or willfully blind.

I had a conversation a year or so ago with some close friends (a catholic and a Presbyterian) I used to work with in which I admitted that I really didn't buy a lot of the stuff we preach but was a continuing member because of heritage, a search for God, and family. They laughed and told me that is pretty much how everybody is - they didn't believe half the stuff they were taught either but enjoyed a spiritual dimension, sense of community, etc. The actual truth of it all was mostly irrelevant. I think that's something to keep in mind.

[UtahDan]

If Jacob is guilty of this, then so are you. You can't go to a customer service complaint website, read thousands of complaints about a company's customer service, and then claim that it isn't common not to complain about that company's service. The people who aren't complaining about it, well, they aren't complaining about it.

In other words, the fact that you have read thousands of stories about peoples' difficult break ups with the Church don't prove in the slightest that it's a common or uncommon reaction. It proves that it's a common reaction for the people who go to rfm to post about it.

I don't spend any time on rfm, though I am aware of it. Most of my experiences comes from closed Facebook groups where people use real names as well as individual interactions. I think I have a lot of evidence I'm basing my opinion on. You are assuming that the only people I meet are already having issues with their families, but this is not the case at all. Many, many people find those groups as an outlet for their concerns and their worries months or even years before they tell anyone they are related to. They seek advice about how to transition and about how to break it to their families. And over and over I have watched people talk about what they are going to do or say and then report how it went. How it goes is pretty predictable within a range. Sometimes they do a great job and sometimes they screw it up. Sometimes the reactions are overwhelmingly loving and accepting and sometimes relationships are over.

Let me try to focus you on what I am claiming. I am claiming that it is difficult for lifers who disaffect, as well as their loved ones, to go through someone leaving the church. I have said this in response to the idea that plenty of people just leave without a peep and no one in their families really cares or even notices and that maybe this is ideal. I have said it in support of the idea that it is not common for people to disaffect without their being consequences (unless they are converts) which then creates a need for support, commiseration and even bitching.

Do you want to try to defend the ground that Jacond seems to have staked out that most lifers slip away quietly, think affectionately of the church and that this has no real impact in their personal lives unless they act like a jerk? You can call it a narrow slice if you want to (did I mention 100K downloads a month on one podcast alone that is pretty negative?) and equate that Jacob basing his opinion on what he would like to be true as well as the zero people he knows who are as he describes, but I don't think it is fair to.

[UtahDan]

I've only skimmed the silliness of the last few pages but I see almost zero difference between exmos and ubermos. Both think they have this amazing light an knowledge everyone simply must have, both aggressively proselytize it, and both are baffled for some reason when nobody cares and/or won't believe in the face of their proffered evidences, writing off the unbeliever as stupid, naive, or willfully blind.

I had a conversation a year or so ago with some close friends (a catholic and a Presbyterian) I used to work with in which I admitted that I really didn't buy a lot of the stuff we preach but was a continuing member because of heritage, a search for God, and family. They laughed and told me that is pretty much how everybody is - they didn't believe half the stuff they were taught either but enjoyed a spiritual dimension, sense of community, etc. The actual truth of it all was mostly irrelevant. I think that's something to keep in mind.

You should do more than skim. There is some good stuff here.

[LA Ute]

Amen to all of what you said.

EDIT: And since we are bearing our souls here, when you finally get comfortable with your identity as a Ute (which, as the BYU faithful have always suspected, really is a path to apostasy) I will be there for you.

Thanks. I am almost ready.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You should do more than skim. There is some good stuff here.

lol.