Article: Confessions of an Ex-Mormon

[Jacob]

Do you want to try to defend the ground that Jacond seems to have staked out that most lifers slip away quietly, think affectionately of the church and that this has no real impact in their personal lives unless they act like a jerk? You can call it a narrow slice if you want to (did I mention 100K downloads a month on one podcast alone that is pretty negative?) and equate that Jacob basing his opinion on what he would like to be true as well as the zero people he knows who are as he describes, but I don't think it is fair to.

Zero people I know? I never said that. Contrarily, I've said that just about every disaffected Mormon I know is as I have described i.e. slipping away quietly (though they are known to declare their disagreements on occasion). I speak only of people I know personally and not virtually. Admittedly, most of my friends and family are active members of the church and I don't begrudge them for their belief just as they don't begrudge others their unbelief. They are all good, friendly and generally forgiving people, so it is no surprise that they treat disaffected Mormons in their lives with love and respect.

[LA Ute]

From Patheos:

A Mormon Thumbsucker

[lambdacoug]

I thought Jay and I had a very nice exchange, it was well worth the thread for me. LA Utes post was outstanding. What is at stake on this conversation is whether people who don't just slip away without a word are reacting in a normal and human way or whether it is fair to view them as outliers who ought to clean up their acts. That is an important discussion for some of us. FWIW, this conversation has modified my thinking and I found it valuable.

Mine as well.

[TripletDaddy]

Forget it. It will just make you jealous.

why?

[Non Sequitur]

The comparison of a lifetime of belief in mormonism and wheaties is ridiculous.

The older you get, the less ridiculous the analogy gets. Lives evolve and are filled with things that increase and decrease in importance.

I used to play basketball every day and could dunk a ball. It was a huge part of my life, but those days are gone...things changed. I used to come home every night to a wife and kids. the kids grew up and I got divorced...things changed. I used to be a Mormon...again, things changed.

It's obvious you are not long removed from the Church. Someday you will have more perspective.

[Jacob]

Yes. I can't share a lot of what I think and do with them because they will react poorly. I didn't used to think this, I initially thought they would be more understanding. I thought I could share with them my reasons for leaving, that was a mistake. The result was they modified their will because they can't trust me because I "turned my back on the church". Then ending that discussion with "You are still in the will, for now." The subtext being "So long as you don't rock the boat anymore". So I will not share anything else with them until they act in such a way as to regain my trust. That won't happen until rhetoric from the pulpit changes about apostates, because they are very orthodox/orthoprax.

We all ought to change our tone and form of argumentation depending on the audience. This is what it means to live in a civil society.

[Surfah]

From Patheos:

A Mormon Thumbsucker

A second ex-mo who shares Kirn's sentiments and fondness of his Mormon upbringing? This is going to explode some heads.

[UtahDan]

I don't think a single person here has argued that leaving the church isn't difficult for many people. Rather, what we are reacting to is the notion that non-bitter ex-mos are so rare as to render the essay in question as unbelievable. That's just nonsense.

I think my credulity increased a great deal when I reflected on that fact that he is a convert. I still think he would be the exception among non-converts.

[lambdacoug]

We all ought to change our tone and form of argumentation depending on the audience. This is what it means to live in a civil society.

Yes, which I forgot for years prior to my exit and during my early exit phase as other priorities superceded (think Maslow). I'm working on regaining it and this board is a large reason why (no, I don't like being perceived the way I'm perceived here, by some, not that I have anyone to blame but myself for such a fabulous entrance).

However, it is not strange to want a much more open and honest relationship with parents and siblings than with other groups.

[UtahDan]

Zero people I know? I never said that. Contrarily, I've said that just about every disaffected Mormon I know is as I have described i.e. slipping away quietly (though they are known to declare their disagreements on occasion). I speak only of people I know personally and not virtually. Admittedly, most of my friends and family are active members of the church and I don't begrudge them for their belief just as they don't begrudge others their unbelief. They are all good, friendly and generally forgiving people, so it is no surprise that they treat disaffected Mormons in their lives with love and respect.

Maybe we can skip past the part where we may have misunderstood each other so that I can ask you directly about what I perceive to be our area of disagreement. Can you tell me where you come down respecting the two following statements:

The author of the article typifies how non-converts experience their departure from the church.

The person who experiences negative feelings toward the church (because of interpersonal fall out, perceived harms done them by the institution or both) for at least for some period of time typifies how non-converts experience their departure from the church.

[Goatnapper'96]

Yes. I can't share a lot of what I think and do with them because they will react poorly. I didn't used to think this, I initially thought they would be more understanding. I thought I could share with them my reasons for leaving, that was a mistake. The result was they modified their will because they can't trust me because I "turned my back on the church". Then ending that discussion with "You are still in the will, for now." The subtext being "So long as you don't rock the boat anymore". So I will not share anything else with them until they act in such a way as to regain my trust. That won't happen until rhetoric from the pulpit changes about apostates, because they are very orthodox/orthoprax.

It is not the rhetoric from the leaders of the Mormon Church. It is likely you and they. It might be that even if you face that and deal with it, they might never and what you might have to face is there is nothing you can do about it. To be honest it is a sad situation and while I like to tweak you because you are vulnerable and fresh in your apostacy so the emotions are strong and thus make yourself an easy target, I would allow you to sob on my shoulder. I cannot fathom having such a dysfunctional situation surrounding me, but to fix it you must honestly identify the root issue and dismiss the easy to blame bogeyman of "the church."

[RC Vikings]

From Wiki on Kirn

Personal life

Kirn's family joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when he was twelve, but Kirn is no longer affiliated with the church.[6] Kirn received the 2009 William Law X-Mormon of the Year award.[7

That sounds like a very prestigious award.

[UtahDan]

From Wiki on Kirn



That sounds like a very prestigious award.

Okay, that is funny. I assume you must not have found this pic or you would have linked it:

[TripletDaddy]

What does one have to do to be nominated for the X-Mormon of the Year award? Why haven't SeattleUte or UtahDan been nominated yet?

[SeattleUte]

From Wiki on Kirn



That sounds like a very prestigious award.

It's not a mean achievement. It goes to non-bitter apostates, like William Law was. You also have to have had your name removed, like Law, notwithstanding your warm and fuzzy feelings for all things LDS.