Article: Confessions of an Ex-Mormon

[Moliere]

That's a great article. I really enjoyed it.

[LA Ute]

This is the source of my mixed emotions. It is really well written. It is also confirmatory of some really negative (IMO) stereotypes about exmos (I know its true, I'm just to weak to stand in the light). I think I have to take him at his word there, but it could also be the case that he is trying to ingratiate himself...though why? And if he thinks its so great, why not reconnect to it? I think he has had a very unique experience, but who knows. He is certainly a believers kind of exmo (the kind that flatters you).

Is there a non-believer's kind of ex-mo? There are other reasons for believers to like the piece. I mainly liked its raw sincerity and the lack of bitterness.

[UtahDan]

You don't need any more lectures on what the exmo community needs to do. But I'll give you one more freebie. This guy's article comes across pretty raw and real. Almost everyone can look back at a job or an ex-wife or a city they lived in, or whatever and find both good and bad.

The exmo community comes across so overwhelmingly negative and petty, it's enough to push borderlanders back into the church.

Church finances, youth camp outs, church meetings, doctrine on eternal families, wedding ceremonies, you name it, exmo's hate it ALL. We're going to have a 24th of July party this Saturday morning with Primary kids riding bikes and scooters in a parade around the neighborhood. It's one of the coolest things you'll see, and I can just imagine a crowd of exmo's ripping the shit out of this party for about a dozen reasons.

I do think there is a lot of merit to what you are saying. It seems to me this is a view point it takes time and perspective to acquire. From the other side, perhaps the corollary to what you are saying is that it would be much easier for people to reach that place if the faithful people in their lives as validating and accepting of their "real and raw" reactions of pain, hurt and anger (or even just accepting of their decision) as they are of this gentlemen's perspective which is more flattering. It is very hard for them to be that way, of course, just as it is very hard for an exmo to reach the place this person has proportional to the price they pay (and again, I think he has paid an uncommonly small price). Both sides looking at each other and saying "why can't you be more chill about this" is probably much less helpful than people simply trying to be chill.

I can see a faithful person saying "you can't honestly expect me to be accepting or not upset about disaffection given what I believe." I can also see a disaffected person saying "you can't honestly expect me to have good feelings about the church given the reaction I am getting on top of whatever reasons I left." Both of those seems like very legitimate and human view points. But maybe there are better places to evolve to.

If a famous active Mormon who has never lost anyone to disaffection wrote a piece saying that he loves the church but validates the choice to leave it and loves the communities of support that people have formed who have left, I think a lot of people who have actually experienced the pain and loss of a loved one disaffecting might look at that person and say "that is nice, but easy for you to say." And simultaneously all the exmos would be on their feet applauding him.

I think my take away here is sympathetic to part of what SU was saying, which is that this is very easy for him to say. But I think I can also recognize, even with that, that having a perspective like his is something that that is desirable and good.

[UtahDan]

Is there a non-believer's kind of ex-mo? There are other reasons for believers to like the piece. I mainly liked its raw sincerity and the lack of bitterness.

The better question is, is there an exmo's kind of believer. The answer is yes. See what I said to Jay, but there is plenty of raw sincerity on this board and other places that it is very hard for a believer to validate. I think it is less the sincerity that people appreciate, and more the perspective of acceptance and appreciation that he has reached. If you would just accept and appreciate me in all my exmo glory LA, you would be an exmo's kind of believer.

[Shaka]

The exmo community comes across so overwhelmingly negative and petty, it's enough to push borderlanders back into the church.

This is exactly what happened to me. Spend any time on RFM and you will start to see that most of those people are completely irrational. When you compare their type of crazy to the crazy stuff in the church, the church wins every time.

[lambdacoug]

You don't need any more lectures on what the exmo community needs to do. But I'll give you one more freebie. This guy's article comes across pretty raw and real. Almost everyone can look back at a job or an ex-wife or a city they lived in, or whatever and find both good and bad.

You're right.

The exmo community comes across so overwhelmingly negative and petty, it's enough to push borderlanders back into the church.

If you're a mormon, isn't that a good thing? Why bitch about exmo's bitterness if it keeps people in?

Church finances, youth camp outs, church meetings, doctrine on eternal families, wedding ceremonies, you name it, exmo's hate it ALL. We're going to have a 24th of July party this Saturday morning with Primary kids riding bikes and scooters in a parade around the neighborhood. It's one of the coolest things you'll see, and I can just imagine a crowd of exmo's ripping the shit out of this party for about a dozen reasons.

While we're talking about black/white thinking...

[LA Ute]

The better question is, is there an exmo's kind of believer. The answer is yes. See what I said to Jay, but there is plenty of raw sincerity on this board and other places that it is very hard for a believer to validate. I think it is less the sincerity that people appreciate, and more the perspective of acceptance and appreciation that he has reached. If you would just accept and appreciate me in all my exmo glory LA, you would be an exmo's kind of believer.

It's just that I find your avatar kind of grotesque. If I could just get past that....

[jay santos]

I do think there is a lot of merit to what you are saying. It seems to me this is a view point it takes time and perspective to acquire. From the other side, perhaps the corollary to what you are saying is that it would be much easier for people to reach that place if the faithful people in their lives as validating and accepting of their "real and raw" reactions of pain, hurt and anger (or even just accepting of their decision) as they are of this gentlemen's perspective which is more flattering. It is very hard for them to be that way, of course, just as it is very hard for an exmo to reach the place this person has proportional to the price they pay (and again, I think he has paid an uncommonly small price). Both sides looking at each other and saying "why can't you be more chill about this" is probably much less helpful than people simply trying to be chill.

I can see a faithful person saying "you can't honestly expect me to be accepting or not upset about disaffection given what I believe." I can also see a disaffected person saying "you can't honestly expect me to have good feelings about the church given the reaction I am getting on top of whatever reasons I left." Both of those seems like very legitimate and human view points. But maybe there are better places to evolve to.

If a famous active Mormon who has never lost anyone to disaffection wrote a piece saying that he loves the church but validates the choice to leave it and loves the communities of support that people have formed who have left, I think a lot of people who have actually experienced the pain and loss of a loved one disaffecting might look at that person and say "that is nice, but easy for you to say." And simultaneously all the exmos would be on their feet applauding him.

I think my take away here is sympathetic to part of what SU was saying, which is that this is very easy for him to say. But I think I can also recognize, even with that, that having a perspective like his is something that that is desirable and good.

Both sides need to chill.

[Moliere]

This is exactly what happened to me. Spend any time on RFM and you will start to see that most of those people are completely irrational. When you compare their type of crazy to the crazy stuff in the church, the church wins every time.

I was once in the MoSto FB community. The echo chamber that exists in that place is deafening in a way that was offensive. Maybe it's changed since Dehlin started kicking people out for being offensive, but the narrowmindedness of the most vocal people in that community was alarming.

[jay santos]

While we're talking about black/white thinking...

I'm speaking narrowly about a very specific group. Asshole exmo's. This group is very black and white and I will describe them as black and white. I wouldn't put Utah Dan in that group, though he appears to be succombing at a very fast pace. Not all exmo's are in this group, not all posters at rfm are in this group, but a large portion of them seem to be. There's also a group called asshole Mormons, that are also black and white on things. I'll try to call that group out also as I notice their antics.

[lambdacoug]

I'm speaking narrowly about a very specific group. Asshole exmo's. This group is very black and white and I will describe them as black and white. I wouldn't put Utah Dan in that group, though he appears to be succombing at a very fast pace. Not all exmo's are in this group, not all posters at rfm are in this group, but a large portion of them seem to be. There's also a group called asshole Mormons, that are also black and white on things. I'll try to call that group out also as I notice their antics.

Like UD, I've never interacted with an exmo as magnanimous as the author of this piece, and as SU pointed out, its likely because his investment was so limited.

[jay santos]

Like UD, I've never interacted with an exmo as magnanimous as the author of this piece, and as SU pointed out, its likely because his investment was so limited.

Maybe your failure to meet an exmo like this is an indictment on the internet exmo crowd.

I do agree this guy had little invested in Mormonism and probably didn't experience the angst a lot of people have when leaving the church.

[jay santos]

I'm speaking narrowly about a very specific group. Asshole exmo's. This group is very black and white and I will describe them as black and white. I wouldn't put Utah Dan in that group, though he appears to be succombing at a very fast pace. Not all exmo's are in this group, not all posters at rfm are in this group, but a large portion of them seem to be. There's also a group called asshole Mormons, that are also black and white on things. I'll try to call that group out also as I notice their antics.

To be a little more fair and balanced on this, I have noticed recently the extreme portion of the LDS TBM style apologetics crowd might be bigger aholes than the rfm crowd.

[lambdacoug]

Maybe your failure to meet an exmo like this is an indictment on the internet exmo crowd.

Or an indictment of the anger and frustration I had and how I sought out places to vent.

Or an indictment of the church for being so difficult to leave.

Or perhaps the internet exmo community is an honest reflection of exmos in general, and the non-angry/bitter exmos like UD's CUF persona are the exceptions and outliers.

Or maybe all of those reasons and more.

[jay santos]

Or perhaps the internet exmo community is an honest reflection of exmos in general, and the non-angry/bitter exmos like UD's CUF persona are the exceptions and outliers.

Be honest. How many exmo's do you know outside the internet? I know many, and rfm does not represent them well. Just like the a-hole TBM's that go on exmo sites to pick fights with exmo's are not representative of the Mormons I know in my life. It's two extremist groups.