Californians Against Hate: "The Mormons are Coming!"

[Viking]

Fred Karger, after being the driving force behind getting the Church investigated for election fraud which resulted in guilty pleas to 13 charges of election fraud and a fine has now filed a complaint against the National Organization for Marriage.

Essentially he is alleging that it received around $350K in donations in 2008 from "big donors" whose names it was required to report but didn't. One was a $10K donation from Mitt Romney through his Alabama PAC Free and Strong. Another was $25K from Elder Cardon who is a Seventy. This all came out, apparently, in documents obtained in an investigation of NOM's activities in Maine. Here is the full list of unreported donors:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fred-k...22.html?ref=tw

Good for him. Prop 8 was despicable.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Fred Karger, after being the driving force behind getting the Church investigated for election fraud which resulted in guilty pleas to 13 charges of election fraud and a fine has now filed a complaint against the National Organization for Marriage.

Well, not exactly, and I'm surprised that you would use such sloppy wording. The California Fair Political Practices Commission reviewed the Church’s non-compliance with CA's Political Reform Act (which was the act in question here). The CFPPC has noted that a violation of the PRA cannot be election fraud. This was a pretty minor violation, resulting in a $5,000 fine.

If it were election fraud, it would have been handled criminally and one could then use words like "fraud" and "guilty." But it wasn't and one shouldn't.

[UtahDan]

Well, not exactly, and I'm surprised that you would use such sloppy wording. The California Fair Political Practices Commission reviewed the Church’s non-compliance with CA's Political Reform Act (which was the act in question here). The CFPPC has noted that a violation of the PRA cannot be election fraud. This was a pretty minor violation, resulting in a $5,000 fine.

If it were election fraud, it would have been handled criminally and one could then use words like "fraud" and "guilty." But it wasn't and one shouldn't.

I am parroting the language from the linked article. If it is incorrect I am happy to be set straight.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I am parroting the language from the linked article. If it is incorrect I am happy to be set straight.

Ah, it sounded like you were writing of the event as a fact. Karger is a very aggressive advocate on the anti-8 side of the fence. But just as certain factions of the pro-8 side overstated or misstated the case in favor of the proposition, Karger often errs similarly, albeit in the opposite direction.

[SeattleUte]

13 charges of election fraud against the LDS Church?

[byu71]

Also, FWIW, NY Times won five Pulitzers today.

Dang, now I am impressed.

[CardiacCoug]

Just saw this editorial in the Deseret News. Probably already posted -- haven't been reading CUF much this week.

So despite the unilateral way contemporary media has portrayed same-sex relations culturally, and despite the punditry that talks of watersheds and inevitability, each time the issue of preserving marriage as between a man and a woman has been put to voters, voters have chosen to preserve and protect traditional marriage.

and

We suggest, therefore, that as this dialogue moves forward, state-by-state, voter-by-voter, that people who have faith commitments to scriptural guidance on families and who appreciate the powerful outcomes afforded by biologically intact families should take heart. Civil, democratic processes are consistently validating your beliefs and understanding about the sanctity of traditional marriage, and even vocal proponents of same-sex marriage can understand and respect that position.

[byu71]

Dang, I finally get to a point where I don't care if the gay marriage activist push through their agenda. Then something like this comes along and pushes me back off the fence.

[The Rambam]

He is one of the most outspoken opponents of some families. As a pro-gay marriage person, this is ground that I am no longer willing to yield. The mormon church and Mr. George are not pro-familiy. In fact they are pursuing political measures that would exert destructive forces on many families.

This is exactly right. The obsession with denying same-sex couples probate rights and joint tax filing status is very odd and paranoid. It is the anti-family position, no question about it.

You and I define family differently. I like this one:

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity.

It is high comedy to hear the Church founded by Joseph Smith and preserved and shaped by Brigham Young define family in a way that would be completely rejected by both of them. And today's members jump in line and remain certain that today's policy decision is the only possible eternal doctrine.

The Proclamation on the Family doesn't qualify under the definition as a revelation, but is a mere guide. It is wrong on this point and should be rejected.

I'll join you in the sick room. Why can't we focus on the things Jesus Christ focused on?

[cowboy]

I'll join you in the sick room. Why can't we focus on the things Jesus Christ focused on?

Great idea. Maybe you could start by judging less, and then perhaps work on humility and kindness.

[CardiacCoug]

I'll join you in the sick room. Why can't we focus on the things Jesus Christ focused on?

How offensive is the phrase "biologically intact families"? Sounds like a phrase from 1930s Germany.

[TripletDaddy]

It is high comedy to hear the Church founded by Joseph Smith and preserved and shaped by Brigham Young define family in a way that would be completely rejected by both of them.

Out of curiosity, what part of that definition would be completely rejected by JS and BY? And why?

[The Rambam]

Out of curiosity, what part of that definition would be completely rejected by JS and BY? And why?

The part about marriage being between one man and one woman. In their theology, you had to have multiple wives to get to the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom. If one man and one woman were married, they were not a true family, fulfilling the full measure of their creation, following God's commands, and matching the eternal model of family set by deity. The would completely reject the Proc on the Family in this regard.

[The Rambam]

Great idea. Maybe you could start by judging less, and then perhaps work on humility and kindness.

I am actually a pretty humble guy who is unfailingly kind and almost never judges others. I just come across wrong on the internet. Happy to meet you sometime to prove it.

[All-American]

The part about marriage being between one man and one woman. In their theology, you had to have multiple wives to get to the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom. If one man and one woman were married, they were not a true family, fulfilling the full measure of their creation, following God's commands, and matching the eternal model of family set by deity. The would completely reject the Proc on the Family in this regard.

So that's the model you'd prefer?