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  • #31
    Originally posted by risicam View Post
    Witnessed an Easter miracle this morning. Not that I've ever doubted that prayer worked, but a little reminder was beautiful.
    [YOUTUBE]d1WcxRaMmIM[/YOUTUBE]
    That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

    http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug

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    • #32
      @SoonerCoug - Oh ye of little faith...

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      • #33
        Yeah I still like The Lamb of God. Soundtrack is a little over the top like most church videos, but probably is the best from any church video I've seen. Do we all have to wear those white robes in the spirit world though? Also, do we have to walk with that purposeful, slow walk?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by risicam View Post
          @SoonerCoug - Oh ye of little faith...
          ?? There is pretty overwhelming evidence that prayer does not work. I don't really know what else to say. I see people pray for their dying loved ones all the time. I have yet to see a miracle.

          Of all the places where people are praying a lot and suffering a lot, a hospital would be a fine place for God to produce a miracle now and then. But he doesn't.
          That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

          http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug

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          • #35
            Originally posted by SoonerCoug View Post
            ?? There is pretty overwhelming evidence that prayer does not work. I don't really know what else to say. I see people pray for their dying loved ones all the time. I have yet to see a miracle.

            Of all the places where people are praying a lot and suffering a lot, a hospital would be a fine place for God to produce a miracle now and then. But he doesn't.
            Just because you may not recognize the miracle doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by risicam View Post
              Just because you may not recognize the miracle doesn't mean it didn't happen.
              There are certain things that just don't happen. If a person has pancreatic adenocarcinoma and it has spread, then they die. If God existed and answered prayers, then there would be at least one or two rare reportable cases where a person with widely metastatic pancreatic adenocarcinoma underwent a miraculous recovery.

              If this sort of thing happened, then it would be reported.

              Certain stages of certain diseases are simply not curable because they are never ever cured. A miracle would be an exception to the rule, but those miracles do not happen. That's why the rule exists.

              It's like gravity. If someone were able to defy gravity and float around in the air, then someone would report it. That would be a miracle.

              If someone were able to walk on water, I'd say that would be a miracle and should be reportable because it defies natural laws. Unfortunately, no one has ever walked on water.

              Dying and being buried for 3 days and then coming back to life would also be a miracle. I'd like to see a reliably documented case of that.
              Last edited by SoonerCoug; 04-08-2012, 05:53 PM.
              That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

              http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug

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              • #37
                Originally posted by SoonerCoug View Post
                If someone were able to walk on water, I'd say that would be a miracle and should be reportable because it defies natural laws. Unfortunately, no one has ever walked on water.
                I'm like LeBron James.
                -mpfunk

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                • #38
                  OK. I stand corrected. Walking on water was documented by Matthew.

                  Matthew also documented the genealogy of Jesus:



                  As did Luke:



                  But this stuff is clearly fabricated, so I really don't have a reason to believe the story about walking on water.
                  That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

                  http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Originally posted by SoonerCoug View Post
                    ?? There is pretty overwhelming evidence that prayer does not work. I don't really know what else to say. I see people pray for their dying loved ones all the time. I have yet to see a miracle.

                    Of all the places where people are praying a lot and suffering a lot, a hospital would be a fine place for God to produce a miracle now and then. But he doesn't.
                    I think you are misinterpreting the reason for prayer, but it's not your fault.
                    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                      I think you are misinterpreting the reason for prayer, but it's not your fault.
                      I think there are other reasons for prayer. I think prayer is a very good thing if done in moderation. I don't think I was saying that obtaining miracles was the only reason for prayer.
                      That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

                      http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug

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                      • #41
                        Since when is you recognizing miracles a prerequisite for prayer working?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Maximus View Post
                          Since when is you recognizing miracles a prerequisite for prayer working?
                          Maybe you're right. Maybe I can't recognize miracles. Please help me learn how.
                          That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

                          http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by SoonerCoug View Post
                            I think there are other reasons for prayer. I think prayer is a very good thing if done in moderation. I don't think I was saying that obtaining miracles was the only reason for prayer.
                            Prayer has become a much more useful tool for me once I stopped treating it like a Christmas list and God as Santa. The self reflection and revelation I get from pondering and reasoning (prayer) have been wonderfully invaluable in my life.
                            "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                              Prayer has become a much more useful tool for me once I stopped treating it like a Christmas list and God as Santa. The self reflection and revelation I get from pondering and reasoning (prayer) have been wonderfully invaluable in my life.
                              This is the value I see in it. Much like meditation.

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                              • #45
                                This one's good, too -- a different approach, but effective:

                                [YOUTUBE]oXrOG02NMB0[/YOUTUBE]
                                “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                                ― W.H. Auden

                                "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                                -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons

                                "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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