Unwanted pregnancy or unwanted child?

[Moliere]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/us...pagewanted=all

There was a recent article that talked about the impact of Roe v Wade on elective abortions, but I can't find that article now (I'll keep looking). I did however find this NYTimes article that addresses the same issue, which is that post Roe v Wade, elective abortions have increased to 90% of pregnancies where a prenatal Down's Syndrome diagnosis is given. Per the article:

About 90 percent of pregnant women who are given a Down syndrome diagnosis have chosen to have an abortion.

When I hear pro-choicers talk about abortion, it's often reasoned with a woman's right to her reproduction or a way to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. I'd argue that in these cases it seems more like an unwanted child than an unwanted pregnancy.

This makes me wonder what the abortion rate is among healthy fetuses. Surely it's much lower than 90%.

[Katy Lied]

You can find some of the abortion statistics in chapter 1 of Freakonomics, IIRC.

[FN Phat]

A coworker actively tried to get pregnant for.over 6 months. She became successful, carried for 4 months, decided she didn't like the changes that started with her body nor the soon to be life changes and aborted. She sent an email to most in the office explaining that she had experienced some complications over the weekend and is no longer pregnant.

I don't understand it.

[Sullyute]

The 5,500 children born with Down syndrome each year in the United States suffer from mild to moderate mental retardation, are at high risk for congenital heart defects and a variety of other medical problems, and have an average life expectancy of 49. As adults, some hold jobs, but many have difficulty living independently.

I have a niece that has Down Syndrome. She is absolutely the life of the party and has unconditional love for everyone. Our family wouldn't know what to do without her.

However, it is very taxing on my sister and requires constant vigilance. I don't blame someone with limited means (emotional, financial, etc) from making a decision based on that knowledge. It is unfortunate, but I understand.

[Sullyute]

You can find some of the abortion statistics in chapter 1 of Freakonomics, IIRC.

I just finished that book a couple weeks ago. It was very interesting. There is also a documentary based on each chapter of the book that streams on Netflix.

[byu71]

Does anyone know somebody who has put up a down syndrome baby for adoption?

Personally, I would respect someone who just admitted they didn't have what it takes to raise a down syndrome child and put it up for adoption. I don't respect people who just abort once they find out the baby isn't normal.

My initial reaction is exactly the same as yours, no respect. As I think about it though, that is based on my belief system. A belief system where there is a God, a pre-existence, a hereafter, etc.

If the person who aborts does not have such a belief system, then I can understand the choice they make when it comes to having a non-normal baby.

[Omaha 680]

I find abortion on demand vs the welfare state to be an interesting conflcit in the the democratic socialist model. I don't see how it can be reconciled, either. The welfare states of Europe require a constantly expanding population base to work and fund all government expeditures. However, abortion on demand undercuts population growth and has created a demographic time bomb in most western countries. I don't have figures for Western Europe, but I read that 70% of all pregnancies in Russia end in abortion.

Edit: didn't mean to threadjack. This is just the first thought I had when abortion rates were mentioned.

[byu71]

How old does a fetus have to be to know whether it has down syndrome? With no religious beliefs about pre-existence, et al, I can understand justifying aborting a bunch of dividing cells. But a fully formed fetus with a brain and a heartbeat? I see no difference between aborting a 4 month old fetus and killing a newborn, regardless of religious beliefs. Physiologically, they're not that different.

Truly I am uncomfortable discussing the other side since my beliefs are the same as yours.

What is the churches stand on giving a 4 month old who doesn't come full term a name and a funeral? In other words are they different than a newborn in the eyes of the church?

[Northwestcoug]

How old does a fetus have to be to know whether it has down syndrome? With no religious beliefs about pre-existence, et al, I can understand justifying aborting a bunch of dividing cells. But a fully formed fetus with a brain and a heartbeat? I see no difference between aborting a 4 month old fetus and killing a newborn, regardless of religious beliefs. Physiologically, they're not that different.

Theoretically, once the embryo is formed you could know if it has Down's syndrome. But it usually takes awhile before it can be detected.

Maternal serum testing is usually offered around the 15th week of pregnancy. It is a screening test and not 100% accurate. If the results come back suspicious, then amniocentesis or chorionic villus sampling can be offered to confirm the results. These invasive tests are the only ones that are 100% accurate when called 'positive'.

It's been awhile, but I think amniocentesis and chorionic villus sampling are offered up front at around 13 weeks gestation, when the theoretical risk of having a Down's syndrome baby is greater than around 1 in 200. This is around a maternal age of 35.

There was some recent buzz about a new maternal serum test that detects fetal DNA. I think it is being touted as accurate at 10 weeks gestation.

[Moliere]

I have a niece that has Down Syndrome. She is absolutely the life of the party and has unconditional love for everyone. Our family wouldn't know what to do without her.

However, it is very taxing on my sister and requires constant vigilance. I don't blame someone with limited means (emotional, financial, etc) from making a decision based on that knowledge. It is unfortunate, but I understand.

Yeah, I can see that and over the past decade or so I've become less "hostile" towards pro-choicers. I'm still firmly pro-life, but I actually think my eternal perspective on things helps me cope with our pro-choice laws.

I did like this comment in the article...

“If someone had told me Sam would still be in diapers at age 5 — ugh — I probably would have died,” wrote another. “Living through it, not such a big deal. Because you don’t give birth to a 5-year-old, you grow with and love this kid for five years.”

When people find out how many kids I have they are shocked and wonder how MJ and I can live with so many kids. People seem to almost always project my situation into their own life without realizing that having a big family is the norm for me.

[lambdacoug]

I see no difference between aborting a 4 month old fetus and killing a newborn.

Legally, they are very different.

[Joe Public]

Why do I not see original posts from Maude Lebowski?

[Omaha 680]

Why do I not see original posts from Maude Lebowski?

Maude = Moose = banned

[Joe Public]

Maude = Moose = banned

Got it.

[HauteCoug]

My second family has a down syndrome son and he is the best part of our lives, but they have the means to care for him for the rest of the time he is on this earth, and even long past the time his father dies. There is no question in my mind however that there is something uniquely beautiful that a handicapped child brings to a family, and I would hope that individuals would see it as a challenge worth fighting after.