Randy Bott and the Priesthood Ban

[SoonerCoug]

When did he say "this is the doctrine of the church"?

If BYU religious professors were fired because they said something that wasnt true, BYU would have no religion professors.

A BYU religion professor is viewed as an authority on Mormon theology. If he is going to say things like that to a newspaper, then he should lose his job. I'd fire him if I were his boss.

[hostile]

Why do you hope I'm kidding? Bott is preaching false doctrine. He should be fired. He is a religion professor at BYU and he is preaching false doctrine. Done. Fired.

I think he is only preaching false policy.

[Pheidippides]

Not perfection, nor infallibility. But definitely a higher standard and greater enlightenment. One that would preclude racism, even during the age of slavery.

Quick to anger, pride, given to some light mindedness....those are flaws.

Racism towards blacks....that seems like more than a "flaw" for someone that is in contact with Deity.

Just my opinion.

The implication (I don't think you believe this, just are unintentionally implying it, or, rather, somebody may get it) leads you down a slippery slope of what ifs and whys, as well as absolutisms (if they won't let women have the priesthood, then it must be from God sort of thing).

Mind you, I agree with you completely.

[Jacob]

Bott should be fired.

I agree. He should be given the opportunity to more fully explain or retract, but he is supposed to be a Mormon religion professor at a University, and this demonstrates that he hasn't taken his job seriously. I can think of at least one other religion professor I had at BYU who I would fire immediately upon ascending to Chairman of the Board of Trustees.

[SoonerCoug]

The Church's statement is also disgusting. What do they mean they don't know WHY blacks were banned from having the priesthood????

[Jacob]

He's only serious if he also thought Ward Churchill should have been fired too.

I thought he should have been too, so you can be sure I am serious.

[TexTechCoug]

Why fire Bott?

After reading this thread we should all have our names removed from Church records.

I've become increasinly disillusioned w/ CUF, you are all quite obviously intelligent and thoughtful, however your disdain for past and present members of the LDS faith who don't share your progressive views is repugnant. Just as social progressives deem the rest of the world inferior so, it seems, do you.

In this single thread we have maligned multiple prophets, apostles, the Church Education System, BYU, and many others. It is so easy to judge and condemn from our enlightened perspective that we rain down condemnation on everyone from BY to Randy Bott.

I believe the policy was and is wrong, but CUF does a fantastic job of focusing on all the things wrong with Mormon History and culture while completely discounting anything good. It seems that 90% of the forum is actually more ashamed than anything else about their relationship with the Church.

The Church and its leaders have certainly screwed up, but the picture painted so often here is that this is all the Church has done and that enlightened CUFers are holding their noses and tolerating it.

[oxcoug]

The Church's statement is also disgusting. What do they mean they don't know WHY blacks were banned from having the priesthood????

Um because the exact point/framework of the transition from Joseph Smith and other early leaders giving the priesthood to black men to 1850s leadership ending that practice to it morphing into a Church-wide practice is unclear.

[Levin]

Um because the exact point/framework of the transition from Joseph Smith and other early leaders giving the priesthood to black men to 1850s leadership ending that practice to it morphing into a Church-wide practice is unclear.

I wonder if it really is that unclear. The Church has remarkable historical records in its archives; I would not be surprised in the least if there's evidence there explaining the origin.

[Jacob]

I wonder if it really is that unclear. The Church has remarkable historical records in its archives; I would not be surprised in the least if there's evidence there explaining the origin.

I'd be very surprised if your guess is right. There is a lot that is unclear from 200 years ago, despite a pretty good dedication to record-keeping.

[SoonerCoug]

I can tell you why blacks weren't allowed to have the priesthood: racism.

This ain't rocket science, folks. The Church saying they don't know why is just a way of pacifying the racist Mormon masses, including people like Bott. It's also a way of not undermining previous church leadership.

[SoonerCoug]

I've become increasinly disillusioned w/ CUF, you are all quite obviously intelligent and thoughtful, however your disdain for past and present members of the LDS faith who don't share your progressive views is repugnant. Just as social progressives deem the rest of the world inferior so, it seems, do you.

Being against racism was progressive in the early 1800s. It's not really progressive nowadays. It's just normal.

The real problem is that most Mormons don't view the ban as a blatantly racist policy.

[Pheidippides]

Why fire Bott?

After reading this thread we should all have our names removed from Church records.

I've become increasinly disillusioned w/ CUF, you are all quite obviously intelligent and thoughtful, however your disdain for past and present members of the LDS faith who don't share your progressive views is repugnant. Just as social progressives deem the rest of the world inferior so, it seems, do you.

Yup. So sue me. Everybody thinks their opinion is right; that's why it is their opinion. However, in this case you should note that just about everybody on all sides of things is aligning in pretty much the same place.

In this single thread we have maligned multiple prophets, apostles, the Church Education System, BYU, and many others. It is so easy to judge and condemn from our enlightened perspective that we rain down condemnation on everyone from BY to Randy Bott.

I'm happy to add you to the list too. But racist people and/or people who permit racism to continue unabated when they can do something about it deserve condemnation, and I don't care who they are.

I believe the policy was and is wrong, but CUF does a fantastic job of focusing on all the things wrong with Mormon History and culture while completely discounting anything good. It seems that 90% of the forum is actually more ashamed than anything else about their relationship with the Church.

Right again. If you weren't ashamed to be associated with the Church after that article came out, then I question you. With appropriate condemnation and enlightened perspective, of course!

The Church and its leaders have certainly screwed up, but the picture painted so often here is that this is all the Church has done and that enlightened CUFers are holding their noses and tolerating it.

It stifles the gag reflex. You should try it.

[Pheidippides]

I wonder if it really is that unclear. The Church has remarkable historical records in its archives; I would not be surprised in the least if there's evidence there explaining the origin.

While I suspect there is evidence in there, I wouldn't be surprised if it's unread, at least by those who matter. It's obvious (to me, at least) that many of our leadership during the latter half of the last century didn't know our own history very well. It may be as simple as a volume and time issue - too much to read and too little time to do it.

[Viking]

What a bullshit answer from the LDS Church. "We don't know why"??!!!

Let me tell you why: prophets claimed it was revealed by Jesus Christ himself that black people should not have the priesthood.

I can't remember the last time I agree with SU, but I am now. What a chicken shit response from a church that could put this to bed by saying: "our predecessors were wrong. we fixed it. we hope nothing like this ever happens again." (whoops: prop 8).