Randy Bott and the Priesthood Ban

[Pheidippides]

How can they fire him for saying things that he probably learned as a student at BYU and which teachings have never been denounced by the church? (rhetorical question)

The best course of action would be for the church to finally apologize for the racist policy, denounce it as not inspired, and then move on. The body of the church can handle such a statement. There won't be mass apostasy. Most of the people in leadership positions have spent the majority of their life without the ban, and those that are uber-orthodox will come up with their own contrived rational as to why past prophets were only speaking as men so their statement are no longer authoritative.

I agree on the best course of action and with the rationalization. I am glad your question is rhetorical because the answer delves into sordid territory.

[UtahDan]

This was my first thought also. The chickens are coming home to roost. As I have mentioned before, a few years ago the church actually formed a committee to draft up a formal apology but it was disbanded by GBH who thought that people don't seem to talk about it much, so he preferred to just ignore it and let it go fade into history. This is the price you pay for such a strategy and I am sure it won't be the last time. With the spotlight on the church due to the Romney campaign, lots of fools will be handed a microphone and asked to elaborate on the ban.

By the way, don't forget this little story I shared about a statement made recently by BKP:

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?p=64428

Thankfully it wasn't reported in the national press, but I think it was just as bad as what Randy Bott said.

That and lots of other things. That is what is different right now than in the past. Before you have a thing like that young lady getting a note in the library and people roll their eyes but no one cares. In the environment of the campaign everything is news. On the one hand, it elevates some things to a level of attention and seriousness that they don't deserve. On the other hand, maybe taking away the "no one cares about that" argument for a while will be a good thing for members and maybe even the institution in the long run.

By the way, whoever said Bott should be disciplined or fired I totally disagree with. Bott is expressing an opinion that, while a little extreme, is not so far outside the norm that he should expect to be disciplined for it. How would he ever know that it is inappropriate to express or hold that opinion? I'm not being smart-alecky with this. It would be ridiculous to make this old guy suffer over this.

[Pheidippides]

That and lots of other things. That is what is different right now than in the past. Before you have a thing like that young lady getting a note in the library and people roll their eyes but no one cares. In the environment of the campaign everything is news. On the one hand, it elevates some things to a level of attention and seriousness that they don't deserve. On the other hand, maybe taking away the "no one cares about that" argument for a while will be a good thing for members and maybe even the institution in the long run.

By the way, whoever said Bott should be disciplined or fired I totally disagree with. Bott is expressing an opinion that, while a little extreme, is not so far outside the norm that he should expect to be disciplined for it. How would he ever know that it is inappropriate to express or hold that opinion? I'm not being smart-alecky with this. It would be ridiculous to make this old guy suffer over this.

I was the one who said it, and I meant it somewhat tongue in cheek with a reflection of the days of the September Six and the Great English Department Purge. I don't literally want him to get fired for it.

[Moliere]

I was the one who said it, and I meant it somewhat tongue in cheek with a reflection of the days of the September Six and the Great English Department Purge. I don't literally want him to get fired for it.

That's how I read your first comment, especially since you alluded to others being fired for speaking out.

I never took a class from Bott. I avoided the CES all stars and just got my religion credits done and out of the way. I was more interested in learning about business and accounting than I was church doctrine. I think MJ took a class from him though and loved it. There is no doubt he is loved by many, and should still be. I doubt he's a bad person and we all have faults, his is unfortunately being expressed out in the open.

I do wonder how the protests will go. I doubt they conjure up enough people/support to make them effective in any way possible. I also doubt they will be allowed to protest on campus. I guess I'm picturing 10-15 people holding signs at the bottom of Maeser hill while thousands of students walk by on their way to class......which mental image is unfortunate.

[HauteCoug]

Bott married Vickie Pehrson in September 1969, after dating for two and a half years, despite the age difference—the two beginning their courtship when he was 21 and she 16.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

That's how I read your first comment, especially since you alluded to others being fired for speaking out.

I never took a class from Bott. I avoided the CES all stars and just got my religion credits done and out of the way. I was more interested in learning about business and accounting than I was church doctrine. I think MJ took a class from him though and loved it. There is no doubt he is loved by many, and should still be. I doubt he's a bad person and we all have faults, his is unfortunately being expressed out in the open.

I do wonder how the protests will go. I doubt they conjure up enough people/support to make them effective in any way possible. I also doubt they will be allowed to protest on campus. I guess I'm picturing 10-15 people holding signs at the bottom of Maeser hill while thousands of students walk by on their way to class......which mental image is unfortunate.

The protests will go nowhere, people at BYU don't protest. They do however bitch incessantly about reffing calls and LaVell not passing the ball enough.

I had Randy Bott when I was a freshman in college. His approach to the church was one of love, enthusiasm and inclusion -- that's why everyone liked and continues to like him. Most on here would greatly appreciate his general approach. I don't recall him getting into the nitty gritty unpleasant details very much but when he did he tried to draw up a rationalization.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Bott's statement is the equivalent of saying, 'Brigham Young wasn't racist; he was generally kind to his slaves'. (Even though he expressly forbade Elijah Abel from completing his temple endowment--he received washing and anointing only).

I was under the impression that the church was distancing itself from calling the ban a 'doctrine', as Hinckley used to refer to it as a 'policy'.

This is painfully embarrassing, particularly to those of us who have a number of black friends, coworkers, and neighbors. I wish the church would officially, plainly, and completely apologize for the policy. Don't couch it in McConkey doublespeak. Perhaps give serious consideration to input from notable black members. They need to fix this underlying problem, not just pretend it doesn't exist.

I hope some intrepid reporter will track down somebody like Darius Gray to get his opinion. With Rumneh being the likely candidate I guarantee we have not heard the end of this.

[RobinFinderson]

The protests will go nowhere, people at BYU don't protest. They do however bitch incessantly about reffing calls and LaVell not passing the ball enough.

I had Randy Bott when I was a freshman in college. His approach to the church was one of love, enthusiasm and inclusion -- that's why everyone liked and continues to like him. Most on here would greatly appreciate his general approach. I don't recall him getting into the nitty gritty unpleasant details very much but when he did he tried to draw up a rationalization.

I had him. I took his class because of the 'name-your-own-grade' policy. There were quite a few of us there for that reason. It was originally my intention to blow the whole class off, skipping as much as possible, but then I found myself showing up in order to argue with Bott over these kinds of issues. I wish I had a better recollection of our debates. All I can recall is that they were generated from statements like the one cited in this thread. One nice thing about Bott was that he was generous with his time, as I'm sure he would have enjoyed spending his office hours doing something other than arguing with me.

[Solon]

This has to be pretty embarrassing for the byu. Bott isn't a renegade High Priest in the Orem 5th ward. He's a professor of religion at the LDS church's flagship university. I think some of the posts on here are going easy on him. I think most outsiders will justifiably think he speaks from a position of authority.

As the pilgrim wrote, this is what happens when a guy with an EdD in Educational Leadership is given the keys to a car he's not ready to drive. I hope he enjoys his time on the lowest rungs of academic hell.

[Sleeping in EQ]

this doesn't even begin to describe it.

Indeed. "Cluster foxtrot" is closer to reality.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

This has to be pretty embarrassing for the byu. Bott isn't a renegade High Priest in the Orem 5th ward. He's a professor of religion at the LDS church's flagship university. I think some of the posts on here are going easy on him. I think most outsiders will justifiably think he speaks from a position of authority.

As the pilgrim wrote, this is what happens when a guy with an EdD in Educational Leadership is given the keys to a car he's not ready to drive. I hope he enjoys his time on the lowest rungs of academic hell.

Bott should have never sat down for the interview, that much is clear. But what he said betrays two things:

1. The BYU Religious Education Department is an echo chamber otherwise how could anyone from it feel comfortable saying things like this to a Washington Post Reporter. I think the proper term here is "groupthink."

2. As others have pointed out, the church bears a lot of responsibility here by not effectively dealing with this and just saying WE WERE WRONG. Add a bit about Jeremiah also having trouble receiving and releasing revelations, fine, but the church leadership must think the average member has a testimony built on sand and any flaw found in the leadership structure will sink their testimonies. If there's no room for this kind of rationalization/loopiness then this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

[NorthwestUteFan]

How different would the scenario be had Hugh Brown been able to change the policy back in 1969(-ish)?

nikuman's TIC suggestion that Bott be fired is funny because he won't face the same scrutiny that others have been subjected to. He will never be called to face a rigged kangaroo court to face losing his career and retirement for his statement as people like Michael Quinn or Grant Palmer have done for digging into verifiable history.

[Northwestcoug]

I was feed a bunch of crap by seminary teachers, church leaders, and the like but was born after 1965.

BTW, I am surprised the fair blog article didn't address the stuff ETB said in conference about the civil rights movement being a "tool of communist deception".

Also, I wonder if Bott's comments of God protecting the blacks by not handing over "the car keys" too soon is how he feels about women not having the priesthood as well.

Same here. In fact, two years ago my daughter was fed a line that went something like this:

Joseph Smith initially ordained blacks to the priesthood. However, this was before he translated the Book of Abraham. When he realized that the seed of Ham was cursed, he stopped ordaining them, and instructed later leaders to stop as well.



So she came home that day, excited that she had heard a 'plausible' explanation for the discrepancy, something that she could hold onto. It was up to me to burst that bubble. Thank you, seminary instructor.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Am I wrong to think that if the Church doesn't publically contradict Bott and officially apologize, it is a serious moral lapse?

[pellegrino]

Am I wrong to think that if the Church doesn't publically contradict Bott and officially apologize, it is a serious moral lapse?

no, but that's likely what will happen.