Temperance movements pre-date Joseph Smith

[Indy Coug]

The Temperance movement dates back as early as the late-1700s and was very influential in an area where the Smith family lived. So why did Joseph Smith refuse alcohol for the operation on his leg? It could be that he and his family were influenced by the temperance movement.

Temperance movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Jacob]

In other breaking news,



Sorry, couldn't resist. If we look hard we will also find similar movements in Joseph's immediate vicinity that promoted abstention from tobacco and hot drinks. Where are you heading with this?

[NorthwestUteFan]

This is an interesting post on the subject: http://mormonmatters.org/2008/12/26/...ord-of-wisdom/

The comments range from NOM to FAIR-TBM-Chapel, but some are insightful. One speaks of the Adventist Church's version of the WOW and it is very interesting. Their own WOW is very similar.

[Indy Coug]

My point is that some frame this story as

1. Historical revisionism where that tidbit was added decades after the fact as a faith-promoting WoW fairy tale.

2. That Joseph somehow innately knew (or received some pre-prophetic revelation) that alcohol was bad for him and even though no one else thought so, he was willing to go under the knife without it anyway.

I acknowledge these are not the only spins on this particular story, but I personally had no idea that temperance movements were that old. I was under the impression they began in the 2nd half of the 19th century.

[Sullyute]

I acknowledge these are not the only spins on this particular story, but I personally had no idea that temperance movements were that old. I was under the impression they began in the 2nd half of the 19th century.

Bushman talked about this in RSR. If my memory serves me, the local temporance movement was able to close a tavern in Kirtland (or maybe it was an adjacent town) just a few weeks prior to section 89 being given.

[Indy Coug]

Bushman talked about this in RSR. If my memory serves me, the local temporance movement was able to close a tavern in Kirtland (or maybe it was an adjacent town) just a few weeks prior to section 89 being given.

I read RSR, but it's long enough ago that I don't recall any discussion of this in the book.

[NorthwestUteFan]

1. Perhaps. Is the story actually verified, or were the accounts anachronistic? Also recall that JS, Sr and Alvin were total alcoholics, so JS, Jr had a few bad examples nearby. Also there is historical precedent in the church to use an historical event to strengthen the argument for the gospel principle. The Primary manual (Primary 3: Choose the Right 'B', Lesson 14) coopts the story of Daniel refusing the non-kosher meat and wine (in an attempt to remove their Jewish identities) to be an example of Daniel following the WoW*.

2. See #1, same ideas apply here.

I also did not know about the temperance movements beginning so early. That is very interesting stuff, thanks for posting. Incidentally, I think it could be beneficial for the church to preach 'moderate temperance' rather than 'complete abstainance' for the WoW items. The Adventists currently do it this way, and the church did it that way until the early 1900s(date?).

*In many ways the LDS church is Restorationist in that it has a vision of a 'perfect past' where the fullness of the gospel existed and was practiced, and attempts to trace itself back to that ideal past. This follows the 'God is the same yesterday, today, and forever' idea by claiming that ancient prophets believed the same things we do today, but that those truths were lost during a 'great apostasy'.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Bushman talked about this in RSR. If my memory serves me, the local temporance movement was able to close a tavern in Kirtland (or maybe it was an adjacent town) just a few weeks prior to section 89 being given.

Many members of the Kirtland Temperance Society were also high-ranking church members. The blog I posted above mentions this fact. They actually closed down a distillery owned by the church, but I imagine a tavern could have been closed as well.

I like this quote:
......."We then took some refreshment and our hearts were made glad with the fruit of the vine. This is according to pattern Set by our Saviour himself and we feel disposed to patronize all the institutions of heaven."

Joseph Smith, Jr
(journal entry, 1836 - 3 yrs after WoW)

[ERCougar]

On a related note, and Jacob pointed this out, the part of the background behind the WOW that bugs me more than the temperance movement is the hot drinks prohibition (and the anti-hot drinks health fad that was likely responsible for it) It's confusing and vague, it has no scientific basis, and deprives me of one of the great joys of life--the smell of a pot of coffee brewing in the morning.

Oh...and if JS had some inkling as a kid that alcohol was bad for him, he changed his mind by the time of his last days in Carthage.

[Sullyute]

Many members of the Kirtland Temperance Society were also high-ranking church members. The blog I posted above mentions this fact. They actually closed down a distillery owned by the church, but I imagine a tavern could have been closed as well.

It has been a while since I read it too, so i must have been thinking of the distillery. However, I don't remember Bushman mentioning that the closed institution was actually owned by the church. That is very interesting.

[creekster]

On a related note, and Jacob pointed this out, the part of the background behind the WOW that bugs me more than the temperance movement is the hot drinks prohibition (and the anti-hot drinks health fad that was likely responsible for it) It's confusing and vague, it has no scientific basis, and deprives me of one of the great joys of life--the smell of a pot of coffee brewing in the morning.

Oh...and if JS had some inkling as a kid that alcohol was bad for him, he changed his mind by the time of his last days in Carthage.

You can brew and smell all the pots of coffee you want.

[NorthwestUteFan]

On a related note, and Jacob pointed this out, the part of the background behind the WOW that bugs me more than the temperance movement is the hot drinks prohibition (and the anti-hot drinks health fad that was likely responsible for it) It's confusing and vague, it has no scientific basis, and deprives me of one of the great joys of life--the smell of a pot of coffee brewing in the morning.

I recall hearing or reading a story that the coffee/tea/hot drink prohibition was written in as a slam against Emma for re2questing the tobacco and alcohol prohibition. At the time there was a belief that hot drinks, even sipping hot water, was detrimental to health. Looking back it seems silly.

Oh...and if JS had some inkling as a kid that alcohol was bad for him, he changed his mind by the time of his last days in Carthage.

The irony of the 6th Article of Faith ("We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church...") is that the church of today is significantly different than 100 years ago, which is different than 140 years ago, and different than in Nauvoo, Missouri, Kirtland, New York, etc. How can we claim to be the same as 2000 - 5000 years ago when we can't remain stable for more than 30 years at a time? I recognize that post David O. McKay the church has been fairly orthodox (with one big, welcome change in 1978).

[Indy Coug]

On a related note, and Jacob pointed this out, the part of the background behind the WOW that bugs me more than the temperance movement is the hot drinks prohibition (and the anti-hot drinks health fad that was likely responsible for it) It's confusing and vague, it has no scientific basis, and deprives me of one of the great joys of life--the smell of a pot of coffee brewing in the morning.

Oh...and if JS had some inkling as a kid that alcohol was bad for him, he changed his mind by the time of his last days in Carthage.

Drink some hot chocolate in Starbucks every morning.

[NorthwestUteFan]

It has been a while since I read it too, so i must have been thinking of the distillery. However, I don't remember Bushman mentioning that the closed institution was actually owned by the church. That is very interesting.

Now that I think about it, I am likely conflating several different situations. I do not know who owned the distillery in Kirtland.

The church owned a distillery in SLC until the 1880s, and also owned a tavern in the Nauvoo House, which it closed because Emma didn't want to offend travelers who belonged to the temperance societies.

[grapevine]

Emma was urinated that people were smoking in school of the prophets so Joseph went to the Lord and got Wow. I am sure there were people against drinking then. For tobacoo did anyonne know it was dangerous before the middle of the 20th century? Or coffee for that matter.