exmo.com comes to WashPo

[CardiacCoug]

Here's the worst line:

Salt Lake City’s male gerontocracy told me to avoid books and marry, but I could not stomach all their teachings.

I feel bad for this lady. A couple of thoughts:

1. For as long as I can remember I knew that there was not a single non-LDS anthropologist, Egyptologist, etc. who considered the BOM to be literally true. It always shocks me that intelligent people get to college and still don't know this. It's amazing and sad and we need to tell our kids that there is no unbiased scientific support for the BOM story.

2. I get what you're saying UD. How can people who have always stayed active in the Church really know what somebody like this lady has been through in her family? I don't understand why families treat their family members poorly over leaving the Church. I feel bad for this lady because it seems like she came from a really conservative family and she based her testimony on things that aren't true.

[jay santos]

I can just imagine the encounter between Ms. Carrie Sheffield and President Monson, Tom:

Carrie Sheffield notices Prez-Mo-T picking up a couple of lollypops in a small convenience store. She charges up to him and begins to passionately present her ideas for improving the church. As she presents her view, Prez-Mo-T unwraps a lollypop, drops the wrapper on the floor, and steps up to Ms. Sheffield just as she finishes saying, "And that is how I think the church could become a much friendlier place to women, gay people, and the many people who want to partake of our communal spirit, even if they can't bring themselves to believe everything the church claims as doctrine."

Prez-Mo-T: You want it to be one way.
Ms. Sheffield: What?
Prez-Mo-T: You want it to be one way.
Ms. Shefield: I don't follow what you are saying.
Prez-Mo-T: You want it to be one way.
(Ms. Shefield now looking very nervous)
Ms. Shefield: Why do you keep saying that?
Prez-Mo-T: But it's the other way.
(Prez-Mo-T looks to the cashier, holds up the two lollipops and says, "Take it out of your tithing." He pops the unwrapped lollipop into his mouth and walks out the door.)

This is pretty much what it boils down to, and I really don't get people like the author here.

[DrumNFeather]

2. I get what you're saying UD. How can people who have always stayed active in the Church really know what somebody like this lady has been through in her family? I don't understand why families treat their family members poorly over leaving the Church. I feel bad for this lady because it seems like she came from a really conservative family and she based her testimony on things that aren't true.

I find this to be a gate that swings both ways. Respect and understanding needs to come from both sides. To suggest that "faithfuls" couldn't possibly understand the plight of someone who is struggling and ultimately leaves but not aknowledge that the departed also lacks an understanding of where those people are coming from is short sighted and, IMO, foolish. (Not saying you are making this argument Cardiac). Again, that is a gate that swings both ways.

[CardiacCoug]

I find this to be a gate that swings both ways. Respect and understanding needs to come from both sides. To suggest that "faithfuls" couldn't possibly understand the plight of someone who is struggling and ultimately leaves but not acknowledge that the departed also lacks an understanding of where those people are coming from is short sighted and, IMO, foolish. (Not saying you are making this argument Cardiac). Again, that is a gate that swings both ways.

Sure I agree. In this case we are obviously only getting her side of the story. And for all we know her family didn't want anything to do with her for reasons entirely unrelated to her apostasy.

And again it's obvious why LDS people don't want people coming to Church just to crap all over their beliefs and ruin their meetings. So yeah, in that sense obviously you have to keep your doubts to yourself. On the other hand, in one-on-one meetings my experience is that you can be pretty honest about doubts and nobody cares or is trying to kick people out of the Church.

[Moliere]

Thank goodness you fellas are here to put the lie to all this nonsense!

[Flystripper]

Then I don't get what she wants. She's opted out, which should provide relief from all of her cognitive dissonance. She's got real famous people that feel the same way she does. There are places she can go to practice her non-belief.

What else is there?

It's the funeral potatoes. She really misses the funeral potatoes.

funeral potatoes are goooooooood

[creekster]

Thank goodness you fellas are here to put the lie to all this nonsense!

Thank goodness you are here to put the histrionic spin on it all.

[Sullyute]

funeral potatoes are goooooooood

I just had a conversation with a co-worker (non-member) last week about funerals. She said that she loves mormon funeral potatoes and had to look up the recipe online after attening a mormon funeral.

[NorthwestUteFan]

1. For as long as I can remember I knew that there was not a single non-LDS anthropologist, Egyptologist, etc. who considered the BOM to be literally true. It always shocks me that intelligent people get to college and still don't know this. It's amazing and sad and we need to tell our kids that there is no unbiased scientific support for the BOM story.

IIRC the manuals specifically do NOT mention the (apparently obvious) fact that zero evidence exists, nor will any overwhelmingly positive evidence ever be found. This is surely purposeful.

The CoC learned a lesson when they 'officially' distanced themselves from the claims that the BoM is any sort of actual history, but was strictly a metaphor, and ~40-60%* of the remaining membership walked out the door and never returned.



*near the same time they also gave the priesthood to women, and made a few other changes. All told they lost almost 75% of their membership.

[jay santos]

IIRC the manuals specifically do NOT mention the (apparently obvious) fact that zero evidence exists, nor will any overwhelmingly positive evidence ever be found. This is surely purposeful.

The CoC learned a lesson when they 'officially' distanced themselves from the claims that the BoM is any sort of actual history, but was strictly a metaphor, and ~40-60%* of the remaining membership walked out the door and never returned.



*near the same time they also gave the priesthood to women, and made a few other changes. All told they lost almost 75% of their membership.

It would be interesting to see what portion of the church would stay if something like this happened. The progressives might be happy to see such change, but if you're looking at the church dropping 75% of its members, it seems most probably it would be the current hard liners that stayed not the progressives.

[NorthwestUteFan]

You may be correct. It seems you are saying the more 'progressive' members would say, "See? It was all just a hoax. I'm glad they finally admitted it, but now I am definitely getting out!" while the 'hard-liners' would somehow retrench and 'follow the prophet', despite having the church officially shatter their lifelong belief that the BoM is what it claims to be?

The 25% devout hardliners who would remain are the types who would pack up tomorrow to move to Missouri if Pres. Monson asked them to do so.

Conversely, if the church says nothing about historical issues then some will still claim they are obfuscating those issues. The church can't win one way or the other.

[SuperGabers]

If the LDS Church is really Jesus’ Church in the last days, one would think that such Christ-like attributes as love, charity, and compassion TO ALL would supersede any rules or doctrine. Jesus taught us to love one another. Period. He didn’t say love one another, except for the apostate, or the gay, or __________ fill in the blank. We are commanded to love EVERYONE and certain policies, and even Church history, reflect a sense of picking and choosing whom you will treat fairly.

If Jesus Christ is truly the head of the church, love would not be limited. It would be given to all inside and outside The Church regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation. If this were truly Christ’s church it would be open to all.

I do not see why a call to be more inclusive is met with such disdain and hate. If rules and doctrines are more important than the love for an individual, then it is fair to say some of you have "got Jesus" but do not "get Jesus."

[Indy Coug]

If the LDS Church is really Jesus’ Church in the last days, one would think that such Christ-like attributes as love, charity, and compassion TO ALL would supersede any rules or doctrine. Jesus taught us to love one another. Period. He didn’t say love one another, except for the apostate, or the gay, or __________ fill in the blank. We are commanded to love EVERYONE and certain policies, and even Church history, reflect a sense of picking and choosing whom you will treat fairly.

If Jesus Christ is truly the head of the church, love would not be limited. It would be given to all inside and outside The Church regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation. If this were truly Christ’s church it would be open to all.

I do not see why a call to be more inclusive is met with such disdain and hate. If rules and doctrines are more important than the love for an individual, then it is fair to say some of you have "got Jesus" but do not "get Jesus."

If that editorial was simply a call to increased inclusiveness you might have a point, but unfortunately the hyperbole and inaccuracies drown out that message.

[Tone Loc]

If the LDS Church is really Jesus’ Church in the last days, one would think that such Christ-like attributes as love, charity, and compassion TO ALL would supersede any rules or doctrine. Jesus taught us to love one another. Period. He didn’t say love one another, except for the apostate, or the gay, or __________ fill in the blank. We are commanded to love EVERYONE and certain policies, and even Church history, reflect a sense of picking and choosing whom you will treat fairly.

If Jesus Christ is truly the head of the church, love would not be limited. It would be given to all inside and outside The Church regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation. If this were truly Christ’s church it would be open to all.

I do not see why a call to be more inclusive is met with such disdain and hate. If rules and doctrines are more important than the love for an individual, then it is fair to say some of you have "got Jesus" but do not "get Jesus."

I like the way Jesus showed love to the money changers in the temple. Sometimes loves hurts.

[SuperGabers]

I like the way Jesus showed love to the money changers in the temple. Sometimes loves hurts.

Women and homosexuals vying for equality are hardly money changers.