Mormon Socialism

[thesaint258]

Who controls the means of production has always been a distinguishing feature in my mind.

I haven't done much study on the subject, but in addition to that, under the law of consecration, don't the individuals themselves determine their needs, and under socialism, the government does?

[pellegrino]

For those interested in the history of this stuff, B.H. Roberts' biography of John Taylor is a must. John Taylor put an end to Brigham Young's United Order communities.

I'd also recommend Arrington's Great Basin Kingdom as really sets the standard for studies in LDS economic histories.

I haven't done much study on the subject, but in addition to that, under the law of consecration, don't the individuals themselves determine their needs, and under socialism, the government does?

I don't know that the specific detail of who determines need has ever been clear.

[RobinFinderson]

For those interested in the history of this stuff, B.H. Roberts' biography of John Taylor is a must. John Taylor put an end to Brigham Young's United Order communities.

I'm interested, but not interested enough to read B.H. Roberts'. Care to summarize some of the transition for us?

[Colly Wolly]

I'm interested, but not interested enough to read B.H. Roberts'. Care to summarize some of the transition for us?

Yes, by all means. Spoon feed him. He lives in the ghetto after all.

[RobinFinderson]

Yes, by all means. Spoon feed him. He lives in the ghetto after all.

Do you own a copy of B.H. Roberts' biography of John Taylor? How about Building the City of God by Leonard Arrington?

I wonder how many more of your 78 and counting posts are going to be empty responses to my posts. Do hollow reactionary knee-jerk responses make you a builder or a destroyer?

[Tim]

That voluntary part is the critical distinction. Socialism is not voluntary, on an individual level, at least.

Um... yes it is. Socialism is voluntary when you voluntarily vote for socialism. If everyone voted for it, they would be voluntarily socialistic. And if everyone is voluntarily socialistic, that's no different than the Law of Consecration.

Moral of the story: We'd be obeying the Law of Consecration if we all voted socialistically. Therefore, if you don't want to vote for socialism, you wouldn't want the Law of Consecration, either.

Chew on THAT one, sucka!

[Indy Coug]

Um... yes it is. Socialism is voluntary when you voluntarily vote for socialism. If everyone voted for it, they would be voluntarily socialistic. And if everyone is voluntarily socialistic, that's no different than the Law of Consecration.

Moral of the story: We'd be obeying the Law of Consecration if we all voted socialistically. Therefore, if you don't want to vote for socialism, you wouldn't want the Law of Consecration, either.

Chew on THAT one, sucka!

While the voluntary aspect is one difference it's not the only difference and anyone looking at this subject with an ounce of intellectual honesty would realize that.

[byu71]

Um... yes it is. Socialism is voluntary when you voluntarily vote for socialism. If everyone voted for it, they would be voluntarily socialistic. And if everyone is voluntarily socialistic, that's no different than the Law of Consecration.

Moral of the story: We'd be obeying the Law of Consecration if we all voted socialistically. Therefore, if you don't want to vote for socialism, you wouldn't want the Law of Consecration, either.

Chew on THAT one, sucka!

No wonder I misunderstand what you guys say sometimes.

If I decide to opt out of the socialism program I voted for, can I. I think I can opt out of the Law of Consecration at any time, unless of course I belong to one of the Warren Jeff's like sects.

[Tim]

While the voluntary aspect is one difference it's not the only difference and anyone looking at this subject with an ounce of intellectual honesty would realize that.

Obviously anyone that knows how to read would know that they should take what I wrote with a grain of salt. Surely the "Chew on THAT on, sucka!" comment indicated that I was playing around.

[byu71]

While the voluntary aspect is one difference it's not the only difference and anyone looking at this subject with an ounce of intellectual honesty would realize that.

These guys twist and turn their arguments all over the place. Kind of like you did when you were so adamant in backing Crowton. Not that you didn't have good company. Bronco himself thought Crowton got a bad deal.

[Tim]

No wonder I misunderstand what you guys say sometimes.

If I decide to opt out of the socialism program I voted for, can I. I think I can opt out of the Law of Consecration at any time, unless of course I belong to one of the Warren Jeff's like sects.

Yes. One opts out of the Law of Consecration by denying his temple covenants and voluntarily removing himself/herself from the community of the Church. Likewise, one opts out of a social society by voluntarily removing himself from that society/country.

[Solon]

I think Finderson is essentially right on Socialism. The blowback is just another example of LDS not knowing their own history or doctrine (however you want to classify that). I have no problem with someone who believes that current LDS aren't under obligation to live communal or socialistic lifestyles, but that's due to modern leadership decisions or revelation, not a massaging of the original intent or ideas.

PS - Nibley's Approaching Zion has some interesting things to say on this. And I'm not a Nibley fan, but I like this essay.

[RobinFinderson]

I think Finderson is essentially right on Socialism. The blowback is just another example of LDS not knowing their own history or doctrine (however you want to classify that). I have no problem with someone who believes that current LDS aren't under obligation to live communal or socialistic lifestyles, but that's due to modern leadership decisions or revelation, not a massaging of the original intent or ideas.

Yesssssssss!!!

[TripletDaddy]

These guys twist and turn their arguments all over the place. Kind of like you did when you were so adamant in backing Crowton.

lol! BYU71 is the bus driver, taking everyone to school.

[byu71]

Yes. One opts out of the Law of Consecration by denying his temple covenants and voluntarily removing himself/herself from the community of the Church. Likewise, one opts out of a social society by voluntarily removing himself from that society/country.

Do you have as much faith in the righteous administration of the socialist government as you do in those who administer the Law of Consecration.

Perhaps you too would like to join the campaign to get Romney elected.