Missionaries killed in Texas

[Jeff Lebowski]

I suspect they are safer than vehicles. While it may be more dangerous to be on a bike in traffic, bikes don't turn kids into human missiles, and it's more difficult to kill yourself in a single bike accident than a single car accident. Anecdotally, I can think of more incidents where elders died in car accidents than bike accidents, and I think more elders ride bikes than drive cars.

Yeah, I don't think anyone can state anything conclusively re: bikes vs cars without seeing some hard data.

[SuperGabers]

Taking the perpetual victimhood away from mormonism....LOL! Good luck with the clean break my friends....

[Tone Loc]

Where exactly? And why don't you post to me directly, rather than tattle tale to UD?

If I have to point it out to you there is no point in doing so.

[SuperGabers]

...and I can point out PLENTY of places my sincerity towards the situation, but you can just go ahead an ignore those posts if it makes you feel any better.

[San Juan Sun]

Btw auto accidents are usually one of the leading if not the leading cause of death for young males.

Actually, narcotic prescription overdose has overtaken auto accidents in people killed. First year ever.

[PaloAltoCougar]

He probably doesn't.

Either you forgot to add a qualifying (though admittedly irritating) emoticon or you are disturbingly cynical and uninformed.

[Tone Loc]

...and I can point out PLENTY of places my sincerity towards the situation, but you can just go ahead an ignore those posts if it makes you feel any better.

Your sincerity is touching and duly noted.

[SuperGabers]

Either you forgot to add a qualifying (though admittedly irritating) emoticon or you are disturbingly cynical and uninformed.

I didn't forget the emoticon. I wanted it to be interpreted as bombastic as the post to which is was responded from.

[Goatnapper'96]

Actually, narcotic prescription overdose has overtaken auto accidents in people killed. First year ever.

Likely if the mormon church put all its missionaries in cars this travesty would not be happening. This once again proves that the nefarious mormon church and its prozac induced driving crazy women are ruining the world!

[UtahDan]

For that...you get this...

I know, I know. I'm not feeling picked on was my sarcastic point.

[Viking]

Does anyone know these families? I hope the church is covering all funeral arrangements. If not, maybe we should start up a collection for them?

[SuperGabers]

Likely if the mormon church put all its missionaries in cars this travesty would not be happening. This once again proves that the nefarious mormon church and its prozac induced driving crazy women are ruining the world!

You were so close to becoming my favorite poster of the day... So close.

[creekster]

I know, I'm being a smart ass. Read creekster's earlier response to me. You are the innocent victim of me flipping poop at him.

This is a topic that I know something about. I have read and studied a lot over the years on bike safety issues. I am a long time cyclist and I have been and remain a member of commissions and organizations that advocate for bike safety. I wish I could tell you that bikes are safer and quote you statistics. I guess I could, but IMO those stats are simply unreliable. There is no reliable and accurate database from which to draw many solid conclusions. Most communities do a piss poor job of tracking the nature of bike injuries/deaths and there is also no clear data on miles ridden per year. (If you go look you will find such stats published all over but I am telling you if you dig it is mostly crap and guesswork).

That said, there is some reliable information showing experienced riders (more than 3 years of riding in traffic) who wear a helmet and obey traffic laws have a VERY low rate of death or injury. Moreover, it appears to me that few here are paying attention to the described cause of this accident. The elders were riding north and the driver was heading south. Unless the elders were on the wrong side of the road (which is stupid, stupid, stupid; parents no matter what your kids hear from anywhere, ALWAYS make them ride on the same side as traffic) it means that the southbound car crossed over and struck them on the opposite side of the road. Wrong place, wrong time. It happens far too often and is a cause of numerous cycling deaths over the years (some of you may recall an incident a couple of years back from the bay area where a cop fell asleep and crossed over striking and killing a couple of cyclists). It is rank speculation to assume that the cyclists would have been better off if they were in a car. In fact, it is possible, and just as plausible, that the third elder who was hospitalized would have been killed if he was in a car, instead of being separated by some distance on his bike. IOW, the fact he was on a bike might have saved him here. (Point being that conjecture about these facts is silly without actually having facts to discuss)

Now does this mean that they should not be allowed to ride bikes? Of course not. Bikes when used carefully are safe, efficient, healthy and fun. It means that this is a tragedy of huge proportions. Look, I have a son who was on a mission where he spent two years on a bike. I worried about him all the time, but I was never annoyed that he was on a bike instead of a car. Indeed, I would be surprised if the death/injury rate within the church among missionaries isnt higher for cars than bikes.

Finally, it wasn't your relationship with the church that triggered my response. It was the blame you chose to lay at its feet under these circumstances. I would have reacted this way to anyone. Stop feeling so picked on about it.

[creekster]

Actually, narcotic prescription overdose has overtaken auto accidents in people killed. First year ever.

For the young male demographic? You will also note I said "one of" and not necessarily "the."

[UtahDan]

First post, looking for an area to criticize. Second post, oh ya, I forgot how sad it is that someone died.

All the while your wife cracks jokes and belittles the situation. Unbelievable.

Just saw this point. My friend, if I was "looking" for things to criticize I would start a new thread every fifteen minutes for the next week. I have said a bunch of times that there could be a very good reason for this. I appreciate the desire to rush to the church's defense here (you aren't alone) but it keeps us from being able to talk about anything if that is all a discussion with me is ever going to be about. Move past it.